Another new Brexit thread

[gordondaviesmoustache]

An old mentor at work once said to me ‘making no decision is far worse than making the wrong decision’. I accepted that what he said were true to a large extent and I can see this ending soon because people are just worn down by the whole thing. But is that right? Will we look our children in the face one day and say we let it past because we were bored of the whole thing?

I’m not sure bored is the right word, but people are fatigued by it, no doubt.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Nissan have announced the ending of night shift work at its Sunderland plant a payout for 3000 staff.



Beginning of the end?

 

[blueinsa]

Nissan have announced the ending of night shift work at its Sunderland plant a payout for 3000 staff.



Beginning of the end?

If not it will be when McDonnell tells them to up wages, give everyone a long weekend and that Fred off the tyre line has a seat on the board whilst 20% of the shares have to go to the workers and a yearly dividend paid out to them all.

Back to your question......no.

It's a reflection on a world wide slump in car making due to diesel tech becoming almost obsolete, a move to electric which Nissan produces back home and people not driving and wanting big SUV type cars that are made in the North East.

 

[Chris in London]

To play devils advocate, there are those on here and in the country that sincerely believe that leaving a ‘failing project’ now will save us significant tears down the road. That is probably the only consistent and honestly held view that I have gleaned from those that support Brexit over the last three years. I don’t agree with it as I have not seen the evidence that the EU project will fail - I think the opposite that the world will become inevitably more globalised over the next 20 years and EU, USA, China and Russia will be the major players politically and economically. However I do recognise that many see this as a benefit of leaving.

I realise that but they tend to be people who would choose no deal in any event. What interests me is that the supposed economic advantages of leaving have largely vanished. Confirmation, I suppose, that we can’t have our cake and eat it after all.

Who knew?

 

[Rascal]

It's a reflection on a world wide slump in car making due to diesel tech becoming almost obsolete, a move to electric which Nissan produces back home and people not driving and wanting big SUV type cars that are made in the North East.

I believe as I have posted previously we are seeing a worldwide downturn and the real possibility of a worldwide recession. All the indicators that normally indicate this will happen are pointing in that direction. The main one is the yields on the American bond markets, They are uncannily accurate predictors of recessions.

As they say when America sneezes, the world catches the cold.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

I believe as I have posted previously we are seeing a worldwide downturn and the real possibility of a worldwide recession. All the indicators that normally indicate this will happen are pointing in that direction. The main one is the yields on the American bond markets, They are uncannily accurate predictors of recessions.

As they say when America sneezes, the world catches the cold.

If you can't make money out of oil, make it out of uncertainty.

 

[stonerblue]

If not it will be when McDonnell tells them to up wages, give everyone a long weekend and that Fred off the tyre line has a seat on the board whilst 20% of the shares have to go to the workers and a yearly dividend paid out to them all.

Back to your question......no.

It's a reflection on a world wide slump in car making due to diesel tech becoming almost obsolete, a move to electric which Nissan produces back home and people not driving and wanting big SUV type cars that are made in the North East.

Hmmm..
With Operating profits for April to June just the 10billion yen then why the fuck shouldn't the workers get a pay rise, shares and a dividend?

 

[blueinsa]

Hmmm..
With Operating profits for April to June just the 10billion yen then why the fuck shouldn't the workers get a pay rise, shares and a dividend?

Because like most companies, they will be willing to pay a going rate based on location, skills and the industry and that is that.

Anything else, if forced and they will close the plant and produce elsewhere. Seriously the plan for seats on boards and shares to be given etc is pie in the sky from Labour and not based on any reality of what business will accept.

 

[Hesperus]

All parties get behind the Boris deal

Then when faced with actually comprising or a no-deal the EU will move

What Boris deal is this? The one that’s not a deal because the EU rejected it?

I don’t agree that the EU will move when faced with a no deal.

 

[blueinsa]

What Boris deal is this? The one that’s not a deal because the EU rejected it?

I don’t agree that the EU will move when faced with a no deal.

Here is why they will.

Ireland's geographical isolation.

Totally reliant on the UK as a land bridge to the rest of the EU.

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Because like most companies, they will be willing to pay a going rate based on location, skills and the industry and that is that.

Anything else, if forced and they will close the plant and produce elsewhere. Seriously the plan for seats on boards and shares to be given etc is pie in the sky from Labour and not based on any reality of what business will accept.

So the fact that we support the workers through welfare payments (housing benefit / child tax credits etc) paid for by taxation on the working population whilst companies trouser billions in profits and pay little or no tax into the UK pot is acceptable to you?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

An old mentor at work once said to me ‘making no decision is far worse than making the wrong decision’. I accepted that what he said were true to a large extent and I can see this ending soon because people are just worn down by the whole thing. But is that right? Will we look our children in the face one day and say we let it past because we were bored of the whole thing?

It is often true, but only when a decision needs to be made.
In this case, the decision that didn't need making was to have the referendum in the first place ('didn't need making' as in there was no cliff edge awaiting the UK if it wasn't held in 2016).

 

[Chris in London]

What Boris deal is this? The one that’s not a deal because the EU rejected it?

I don’t agree that the EU will move when faced with a no deal.

Of course they will. The German car makers will see to that.

To say nothing of the Italian Prosecco producers.

 

[blueinsa]

So the fact that we support the workers through welfare payments (housing benefit / child tax credits etc) paid for by taxation on the working population whilst companies trouser billions in profits and pay little or no tax into the UK pot is acceptable to you?

Talking Nissan here so unless you can show me they workforce are all subsidised by state benefits then it's going nowhere.

Do Nissan not pay tax either or is this just you wandering off into a rant?

That said I'm fully in favour of legislation that makes companies, especially the largest that make £Billions trading in the UK pay their fair share but I know this, a 4 day week and seats on boards and 20% of shares to Joan, Fred and Harry isnt going to make them pay.

It will drive them away.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Here is why they will.

Ireland's geographical isolation.

Totally reliant on the UK as a land bridge to the rest of the EU.

And I get the impression that they regard us as being at fault with their isolation.

I glanced at the front of the DT this morning and the EU are talking of no extension without another referendum. WTF is that about?

A no-deal is as organisationally problematic for everybody.

I have come to two conclusions over the last couple of years re Brexit and the EU: first, varying degrees of governmental incompetence, and negotiations with a bunch of weasels. I just can't decide which side of the debacle are the weasels.

 

[Hesperus]

Here is why they will.

Ireland's geographical isolation.

Totally reliant on the UK as a land bridge to the rest of the EU.

Here is why they won’t, Integrity of the single market, etc etc.

The honest answer is neither of us know. We have our own opinions but we’ll have to see how it plays out.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

So the fact that we support the workers through welfare payments (housing benefit / child tax credits etc) paid for by taxation on the working population whilst companies trouser billions in profits and pay little or no tax into the UK pot is acceptable to you?

But they create the wealth by letting you have a job..........etc, etc,
You'r lucky they let you work for them........

Just wait for it.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I realise that but they tend to be people who would choose no deal in any event. What interests me is that the supposed economic advantages of leaving have largely vanished. Confirmation, I suppose, that we can’t have our cake and eat it after all.

Who knew?

And I suspect a number of those that claimed economic benefits in the first place have now morphed into saving the U.K. from future risk.

 

[George Hannah]

That process has given us a law that says no GE till 2022 and a PM without a majority. How can they be stalling the democratic process?

Those two disasters are linked and repeal of the FTPA should be a number one priority for any party that cares about our system of government. Referendums, the Farage/Bannon tool of choice, are another threat - possibly terminal - with our current fiasco the end result of one.
To hear Blair's case last night on the Andrew Neil programme for another being described as 'coherent' by allegedly rational posters on here is an indication of the sheer lunancy of the situation. It's actually being seriously suggested that a motley grouping of defeated Remainers, including the SNP, should exploit the current Tory debacle to prevent a GE and install themselves for 6 months of non-government before inflicting a No Deal/Remain choice on the electorate. That would then line up a Farage/BoJo axis against an EU sponsored leaderless group irremedially tainted by their previous tactics. So much for the future of our representative parliamentary democracy if BoJo wins and he lifts a bunch of rampant populist right-wing extremists into power at the following GE.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Those two distsasters are linked and repeal of the FTPA should be a number one priority for any party that cares about our system of government. Referendums, the Farage/Bannon tool of choice, are another probably terminal threat, with our current fiasco the end result of one. To hear Blair's case last night on the Andrew Neil programme for another being described as 'coherent' by allegedy rational posters on here is an indication of the sheer lunancy of the situation. It's actually being seriously suggested that a motley grouping of defeated Remainers, including the SNP, should exploit the current Tory debacle prevent a GE and install themselves for 6 months of non-government before inflicting a No Deal/Remain choice on the electorate. That would then line up a Farage/BoJo axis against an EU sponsored leaderless group tainted by their previous tactics. So much for the future of our representative parliamentary democracy if they win and a bunch of rampant populist right-wing extremists are lifted into power at the following GE.

Our system of government is broken and good luck fixing it. I don’t, therefore, ‘care’ about it, as it is wank.