And all those commitments already made to fund projects during the new budget cycle - based on our contributions
Think that there may have been a further balancing the books challenge
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Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
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Think that there may have been a further balancing the books challenge
west didsblue
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Wouldn’t surprise me if the ERG cave in as well.Would love to hear the Rees-Mogg - ERG take on this.
west didsblue
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I think you’ll find Scotland will give a toss as they will want the same arrangement for themselves.We in GB never gave a toss about this I think. It is only the DUP who do and it is they who will have caved if that gets through, since their support will be needed if it is to get through on that basis.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Me neither.Wouldn’t surprise me if the ERG cave in as well.
Digging their heals in risks turmoil in the Tory party (more turmoil) Johnson losing his job, a GE where the Brexit party takes half the Tory votes and then a coalition government led by JC followed by Ref2 and Brexit cancelled. It's a sobering prospect.
I think the hope of the unfettered backstop and many years of Ireland keeping the UK locked in and taking direction has caused a level of giddinessThe Welsh are boot lickers.
Bad day for you yesterday I can tell.
Shame I would have thought the hope of a deal and the end of brexit would be welcomed by all but it's clear some remainers just can't stomach that thought.
Actually scratch that. Your issue mate is your dream of a United Ireland, all brought about via the backdoor and the backstop has slipped yet again.
That's why you're upset.
Losing that 'Golden Outcome' would cause some disappointment for some
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I am sure they will, but what I meant when I said GB couldn't give a toss, I meant couldn't give a toss about consigning NI to the customs union et al. i.e. we'd have no objection to it. The Scotts would probably lap it up, since it would pave the way for them.I think you’ll find Scotland will give a toss as they will want the same arrangement for themselves.
That was the official Leave campaign policy. I don't use it as a big bold answer to any or all questions.Stop it free trade zone from the arctic to the Russian front or whatever it is you repeat ad nausea.
If that promise is what's in this deal it won't get past the ERG.
Fred_Quimby
Well-Known Member
Ladies and gentlemen - after 3 1/2 years of wrangling and the WA with a backstop being thrown out 3 times it’s looking like we have - pauses for a trumpet fanfare - a WA with a backstop. It’s looking like you can polish a turd after all.
It never was true. "If we leave we will still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border." No deal necessary. But it was never true. It was ... a lie. Not a pessimistic forecast. A blatant lie.
You admitted it.
George Hannah
Well-Known Member
and Brexit never happened...... this thread is priceless. It's a replay of the referendum never happened.My prediction is that the proposals will include NI effectively staying in the CU and SM but it will be dressed up to say the opposite. In other words, Johnson will have caved.
I have always said:We'll see who's moved when the ERG see see the small print.
" "We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable No-Deal option - and the political will to use it."
Now this does not mean an outcome guaranteed to be all that we want - that is not the nature of negotiations and our current starting point following the harm done by May and Robbins has already become far worse that it needed to be.
It is clear though that - as demonstrated by Tusk this morning - the EU have now felt the threat of a No-Deal outcome sufficiently to make movement and this proves the truth of that statement I have made for 3 years.
It really always was obvious to anyone able to be objective and not in denial.
Of course - the EU will still be hoping for the surrender bill to provide further support and still be optimistic that a 2nd referendum can be orchestrated which will then allow them to harden their stance again.
That will not change the fact that the point has been proven to be correct
hilts
Well-Known Member
Desire?? You do realise that the respective Acts of Union were more or less imposed on Scotland and Ireland by England, using a mix of bribery, unrepresentative Parliaments and the implicit threat of military force - yet you wonder why there is a significant lack of desire for the Union in NI and Scotland?
Sorry I don't live in past so your post means nothing to me. If wee Willy McBride still holds a grudge on behalf of his ancient ancestors he should grow the fuck up. What people want now is all that matters.
Now if you don't mind I'm going to beat up a German scandavian and Italian for being country plundering bastards:-)
lancs blue
Well-Known Member
It's the lessons of history that influence their views, in other words some are sceptical that a London-based government can be trusted to act in their best interests.Sorry I don't live in past so your post means nothing to me. If wee Willy McBride still holds a grudge on behalf of his ancient ancestors he should grow the fuck up. What people want now is all that matters.
Now if you don't mind I'm going to beat up a German scandavian and Italian for being country plundering bastards:-)
AlexWilliamsGloves
Well-Known Member
The Telegraph begs to differ. The price of Brexit is NI. The best way to monitor Govt thinking on Brexit is check out the Telegraph.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...eland-burden-rest-uk-cant-let-get-way-brexit/
what a cnut
hilts
Well-Known Member
It's the lessons of history that influence their views, in other words some are sceptical that a London-based government can be trusted to act in their best interests.
And they are free to vote protest or head butt an Englishman at anytime if it worries them so. Maybe a Scottish independence referendum will put these cruel injustices to bed?
Oh shit they had one didn't they.
Nonsense I am afraid to have to tell youYou're totally misreading the situation mate.
The offer from the EU of a Canada deal option with a NI hive off has always been on the table.
Nothing to do with threatening no deal, the offer has always been there, it's just that Mavis wouldn't accept it.
It's a shit deal from an economic viewpoint but that's been forgotten now.
I understand and accept that such offers have been 'known about' - but what is happening now is 'movement' from the EU from where they have recently been.
When preparing to commence negotiations both parties should establish their Idealistic, Realistic and Fallback target outcomes.
Well I say both parties - obviously only one did due to May and Robbins.
For the EU the one that is now emerging is indeed no worse for them that would likely have been considered their 'Fallback' outcome, but that is not where they have been - nor where they have expected to be recently.
They would have had a 2nd referendum leading to Brexit being binned off as their 'Realistic' outcome and fully expected to achieve that.
May and Robbins's fuck up though allowed the EU to reappraise their 'Ideal' outcome - having the UK for many years locked into the backstop and under full regulatory control - must have seemed like a 'too good to be true' outcome - and even better that Brexit simply being stopped. FFS they would have had a troublesome member totally neutered and under control for as many years as they want and no inconvenience to the EU.
May and Robbins's waste of the negotiating opportunity and time has properly fucked us over and left the UK now trying to 'row back' from the gains the EU has been gifted.
The EU will not have wanted to give up anything secured - why would they?
When you end up closing a deal at a position which you had thought had been lost - it feels like a win - even if that opportunity had been previously available - but tossed away.
I have said many times that it will be 'dressed up' to look like the EU has not conceded - and also that the UK has 'won' something - depending on the audience - again that is how these things work.
So no - I am not misreading it - I just understand how these can (should) work.
But is clearly true that the oft-repeated statement of:
"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable No-Deal option - and the political will to use it."
has been proven right.
FFS all of us should be positive about this - there have been a good number of Remainers on here queuing up to declare themselves ready for a deal - as soon as they started to worry about No-Deal happening of course and not before.
The 'statesmanlike' things to do is to resist saying …………………… "I told you so' - but after some of the shit I have received on here from people that either have no understanding of these things or are just too pig-headed...…...
But it must be frustrating to know that so many people won't accept it as the truth. If a deal is made now, history will say it was the Benn Act that put the wind up a prime minister with no majority and every bit of official advice telling him that No Deal would mean economic disaster and the death of the Tory party. (Though I'm wondering what Cummings is currently up to.)I have always said:
" "We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable No-Deal option - and the political will to use it."
Now this does not mean an outcome guaranteed to be all that we want - that is not the nature of negotiations and our current starting point following the harm done by May and Robbins has already become far worse that it needed to be.
It is clear though that - as demonstrated by Tusk this morning - the EU have now felt the threat of a No-Deal outcome sufficiently to make movement and this proves the truth of that statement I have made for 3 years.
It really always was obvious to anyone able to be objective and not in denial.
Of course - the EU will still be hoping for the surrender bill to provide further support and still be optimistic that a 2nd referendum can be orchestrated which will then allow them to harden their stance again.
That will not change the fact that the point has been proven to be correct
I have to agree.
There’s two positives I’m taking-
1) we’ll have a deal finally, one in which doesn’t sound as bad as May’s, we can move on to the next stage and start to focus on the domestic agenda and actual trade deals more
2) that **** Farage will disappear
No chance no.2 is happening.
hilts
Well-Known Member
Nonsense I am afraid to have to tell you
I understand and accept that such offers have been 'known about' - but what is happening now is 'movement' from the EU from where they have recently been.
When preparing to commence negotiations both parties should establish their Idealistic, Realistic and Fallback target outcomes.
Well I say both parties - obviously only one did due to May and Robbins.
For the EU the one that is now emerging is indeed no worse for them that would likely have been considered their 'Fallback' outcome, but that is not where they have been - nor where they have expected to be recently.
They would have had a 2nd referendum leading to Brexit being binned off as their 'Realistic' outcome and fully expected to achieve that.
May and Robbins's fuck up though allowed the EU to reappraise their 'Ideal' outcome - having the UK for many years locked into the backstop and under full regulatory control - must have seemed like a 'too good to be true' outcome - and even better that Brexit simply being stopped. FFS they would have had a troublesome member totally neutered and under control for as many years as they want and no inconvenience to the EU.
May and Robbins's waste of the negotiating opportunity and time has properly fucked us over and left the UK now trying to 'row back' from the gains the EU has been gifted.
The EU will not have wanted to give up anything secured - why would they?
When you end up closing a deal at a position which you had thought had been lost - it feels like a win - even if that opportunity had been previously available - but tossed away.
I have said many times that it will be 'dressed up' to look like the EU has not conceded - and also that the UK has 'won' something - depending on the audience - again that is how these things work.
So no - I am not misreading it - I just understand how these can (should) work.
But is clearly true that the oft-repeated statement of:
"We will not see movement from the EU unless and until they face the prospect of a viable No-Deal option - and the political will to use it."
has been proven right.
FFS all of us should be positive about this - there have been a good number of Remainers on here queuing up to declare themselves ready for a deal - as soon as they started to worry about No-Deal happening of course and not before.
The 'statesmanlike' things to do is to resist saying …………………… "I told you so' - but after some of the shit I have received on here from people that either have no understanding of these things or are just too pig-headed...…...
Bang on but they won't admit it. Anyhow let's not jump the gun here a deal is not done until tolmie posts a spurious you tube video. Even then it's only 50/50:-)
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