Another new Brexit thread

[Bluemanc100]

Seriously? You expect people who voted Remain to say "this is my shitshow". "I did this." "Ich bin ein Leaver no matter what I thought of the idea." Pure and simple balderdash.

Was “balderdash” the word of the day in Socialist Worker or in the Remainer annual?

 

[Coatigan]

No chickens counted - but without being capable of absolutely lying to themselves - nobody can deny that even the prospect of a No-Deal outcome has made the EU and Ireland move.

That in itself is worth being positive about - especially after soooo many ill-thought through posts that I have received...…..

Literally every single person can deny that.

 

[Coatigan]

It shouldn't matter a jot who has caved in or shifted their position the most if a deal that all parties are happy with gets done and voted through. Surely the most important thing is that a deal was brokered. Anyone wanking off about the Benn Act forcing Johnson's hand or the government forcing the EU's hand needs to stop with the pathetic points scoring

Agree.

 

[Coatigan]

You forget that history is written by the winners not the losers. If it happens a genuine Brexit is a massively damaging defeat for the EU and a great victory for the UK. (Or for many on here the other way round and some would wisely say defeat/victory for both.)

You and the other (no-deal made it all possible) guy keep using the word 'genuine'
Brexit, or words to that effect? what does that represent to you? is the prospective deal currently mooted genuine to you?

 

[Vic]

How is it balderdash to say wait and see? Have you got a crystal ball Vic? Me neither

ok. A triumph of hope over history.

I'm sure you'd get good odds on the pound ever being back at 1.66 to the Euro.

 

[Vic]

Was “balderdash” the word of the day in Socialist Worker or in the Remainer annual?

It was a euphemism for bullshit. I was trying to be nice.

 

[George Hannah]

You and the other (no-deal made it all possible) guy keep using the word 'genuine'
Brexit, or words to that effect? what does that represent to you? is the prospective deal currently mooted genuine to you?

It's simply one which enables the all the UK to trade with any other country on its own terms. That isn't possible with the existing WA, the backstop prevents it indefinitely. Whether there are changes afoot we will have to see but if there are it is because the EU and Ireland have calculated that a No Deal exit will happen in 20 days or by next January at the latest.

 

[Mike D]

No chickens counted - but without being capable of absolutely lying to themselves - nobody can deny that even the prospect of a No-Deal outcome has made the EU and Ireland move.

That in itself is worth being positive about - especially after soooo many ill-thought through posts that I have received...…..

I would put them chickens back because there is no smoke coming from the chimney yet, plenty of rumours about Johnson moving back towards May's deal.

No Deal never has been bargaining chip, you cannot logically classify something that will do more damage to yourself that the party trying to cut a deal with. The misunderstanding that No Deal is like veto or just walking away its not in the case.

There is a long way to go on this and the mood music has changed slightly but we have been here too many times before.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

The SNP are finished with brexit done.

In the UK parliament I most definitely agree, I suspect the Scots will be seceeding from the UK when we leave.

 

[George Hannah]

I would put them chickens back because there is no smoke coming from the chimney yet, plenty of rumours about Johnson moving back towards May's deal.

No Deal never has been bargaining chip, you cannot logically classify something that will do more damage to yourself that the party trying to cut a deal with. The misunderstanding that No Deal is like veto or just walking away its not in the case.

There is a long way to go on this and the mood music has changed slightly but we have been here too many times before.

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

So I think we can summarise that in 3 years - No deal was better than a bad deal which was May's deal which is now a good deal - relax for the weekend it's all under control

 

[Coatigan]

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

Sure it will. In fantasy land.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It was a euphemism for bullshit. I was trying to be nice.

vic go cheer yourself up and go and watch the joker movie.

it’s right up your street

 

[meltonblue]

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

They have always had a far greater fear of compromising their own red lines than they have of no deal, which I don't think has ever been acknowledged by some.

 

[Coatigan]

It's simply one which enables the all the UK to trade with any other country on its own terms. That isn't possible with the existing WA, the backstop prevents it indefinitely. Whether there are changes afoot we will have to see but if there are it is because the EU and Ireland have calculated that a No Deal exit will happen in 20 days or by next January at the latest.

And if a deal comes that doesn't? genuine question btw.

 

[Mike D]

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

It is no going to happen Georgie boy not now not ever in a million years, as Barnier has said so many time the first thing we would have to do the day after No Deal would be negoitiating a new deal with the EU. In that scenario the EU would hold all of the cards because as has been highlighted in yellow hammer we would be fucked. That is beside the fact we have the Benn Act coming into play on the 19th the EU as they always have done will play this as they always have done perfect diplomacy, no grandstanding, no boasting.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

It is no going to happen not now not ever in a million years, as Barnier has said so many time the first thing we would have to do the day after No Deal would be negoitiating a new deal with the EU. In that scenario the EU would hold all of the cards because as has been highlighted in yellow hammer we would be fucked. That is beside the fact we have the Benn Act coming into play on the 19th the EU as they always have done will play this as they always have done perfect diplomacy, no grandstanding, no boasting.

yeah cos it’s not grandstanding and perfectly diplomatic to say

there is a special place in hell for leave voters

 

[mcfc1632]

Is this the time to mention the Benn Act or point out that no deal was taken off the table and it was more a need to find a deal because both sides desire a deal than anything else?

Let me know because this could be a fun day.

That seems a bit of back sliding?

It is Leavers that have said a deal will be done and that the prospect of a no-deal helps that because without that threat there is no need for the EU to move from their stronger position

I sense some proper reinventing of what as gone before coming up

 

[meltonblue]

yeah cos it’s not grandstanding and perfectly diplomatic to say

there is a special place in hell for leave voters

No-one ever said that to be fair.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

If the EU let us out it will be wholly attributable to their fear of No Deal. It's still a very big if though.

What BS. We could leave with no deal as long as we have the political will to do it, A50 provides for 2 years as a minimum holding period but we have burnt through that. If we want to leave with a deal then we have to do a deal - if you want to call that 'being let out' maybe that illustrates how much stronger there hand is in the negotations and how equally shit our hand is. All of course because we know that any form of leaving is bad for us and less bad for them and the more distance we put between us and them the worse of we are, disproportionatley to any impact on them.