Another new Brexit thread

  • Thread starter Thread starter Ric
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Saddleworth2 said:
I don't see that happening. Labour smell a GE so I would expect that whatever fudge is conjured up will get a kicking in the hoc.
Click to expand...
And hopefully, the british electorate will let them know exactly how we feel about their politicking on this whole brexit issue. Any party, that promises to deliver a deal based leave brexit will storm the next GE.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
I don't see that happening. Labour smell a GE so I would expect that whatever fudge is conjured up will get a kicking in the hoc.
Click to expand...

To be fair Labour have been incredibly principled on Brexit.

They’re damned if they do vote for it and damned if they don’t though.

If they don’t, it’ll kill them more.
 
Ban-jani said:
To be fair Labour have been incredibly principled on Brexit
Click to expand...
giphy.gif
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Because everyone is still clinging to their steadfast view on brexit, and not seeking compromises?
Click to expand...
Quite probably mate. Whilst Brexiters might compromise around what type of brexit we actually get, remain is remain and personally I find it impossible to compromise and say ok lets leave. If you truly believe that the EU project is right for the UK then any leave is an anathema.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Quite probably mate. Whilst Brexiters might compromise around what type of brexit we actually get, remain is remain and personally I find it impossible to compromise and say ok lets leave. If you truly believe that the EU project is right for the UK then any leave is an anathema.
Click to expand...
Compromise is the only way out of this; look at the recent brexit talks. NI in a UK AND EU customs territory.

No deal; rejected by the majority. Remaining; rejected by the majority. 2nd referendum on Scottish Independence; considered (at least by those of us who respect and honour liberty)

Many of us do not believe the EU project is right for the UK; many of us only saw the EEC arrangement as being the pinnacle of our relationship with Europe, and we left the EFTA to acheive that, which ironically has become the "EEA", whilst the EU has become something we, as a nation, didn't want. People forget that many of the people who voted to leave, were the same ones who were of age to vote in favour of joining the EEA back in '75 and have since changed their minds.

Leave with a deal and address any future concerns as they come. Remain, and we continue the cycle of hatred and vitriol for many years.
 
From the Guardian tonight:
" Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, told a conference on Saturday: “If Johnson does manage to negotiate a deal… then we will insist that it is put back to the people in a confirmatory vote. If he can’t – or I should say won’t – get a deal … we will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent our country crashing out of the EU without a deal.”
 
Saddleworth2 said:
From the Guardian tonight:
" Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, told a conference on Saturday: “If Johnson does manage to negotiate a deal… then we will insist that it is put back to the people in a confirmatory vote. If he can’t – or I should say won’t – get a deal … we will take whatever steps are necessary to prevent our country crashing out of the EU without a deal.”
Click to expand...
You see, how is this rhetoric helpful to anyone? "We won't agree any deal the Tories have agreed" What, one that the EU itself endorses? If Starmer disagrees with the deal, then he's disagreeing with both the Tories AND the EU.

And Starmer has already been shown up to be a hypocritical prick. His voice has no integrity.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Compromise is the only way out of this; look at the recent brexit talks. NI in a UK AND EU customs territory.

No deal; rejected by the majority. Remaining; rejected by the majority. 2nd referendum on Scottish Independence; considered (at least by those of us who respect and honour liberty)

Many of us do not believe the EU project is right for the UK; many of us only saw the EEC arrangement as being the pinnacle of our relationship with Europe, and we left the EFTA to acheive that, which ironically has become the "EEA", whilst the EU has become something we, as a nation, didn't want. People forget that many of the people who voted to leave, were the same ones who were of age to vote in favour of joining the EEA back in '75 and have since changed their minds.

Leave with a deal and address any future concerns as they come. Remain, and we continue the cycle of hatred and vitriol for many years.
Click to expand...
But quite possibly a majority of the people in the UK don't want to leave. The best and fastest way to bring the country together is a confirmatory referendum with whatever deal Johnson manages to get vs Remain. I think the result would be honoured by the vast majority of people. Like it or not, the initial referendum has a legacy of dishonesty that means a great many people don't respect it and never will.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
You see, how is this rhetoric helpful to anyone? "We won't agree any deal the Tories have agreed" What, one that the EU itself endorses? If Starmer disagrees with the deal, then he's disagreeing with both the Tories AND the EU.

And Starmer has already been shown up to be a hypocritical prick. His voice has no integrity.
Click to expand...
Its helpful to those of us that wish to remain mate. And there are a few of us. Mays deal was booted out by all sides and it was agreed by the EU. Why should this new deal be any better?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
But quite possibly a majority of the people in the UK don't want to leave. The best and fastest way to bring the country together is a confirmatory referendum with whatever deal Johnson manages to get vs Remain. I think the result would be honoured by the vast majority of people. Like it or not, the initial referendum has a legacy of dishonesty that means a great many people don't respect it and never will.
Click to expand...
Again, this sort of rhetoric doesn't matter. The standing mandate, the 2016 referendum, which has yet to be enacted, received the most votes.We leave the EU. Manyu leavers have even accepted compromises with remainers to achieve this result. But have we? No. Because of talk like this.

Imagine, if you will, Scotland won the 2014 ref, but the rest of the UK, uhmed and ahh'd and then evenetually proclaimed that "as we now know more of what leaving the UK means, the people of Scotland have since changed their minds", and that became the leading narrative to the indyref negotiations. You'd be fuming, right?

Yeah, DITTO!!
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Its helpful to those of us that wish to remain mate. And there are a few of us. Mays deal was booted out by all sides and it was agreed by the EU. Why should this new deal be any better?
Click to expand...
So we're back to "fuck the leavers" talk?

Sorry, unless you remainers can offer a deal we leavers will accept, we'll have to continue with the "you lost get over it" narrative. Not helpful? "well it's helpful to those of us who wish to leave, mate"
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
Again, this sort of rhetoric doesn't matter. The standing mandate, the 2016 referendum, which has yet to be enacted, received the most votes.We leave the EU. Manyu leavers have even accepted compromises with remainers to achieve this result. But have we? No. Because of talk like this.

Imagine, if you will, Scotland won the 2014 ref, but the rest of the UK, uhmed and ahh'd and then evenetually proclaimed that "as we now know more of what leaving the UK means, the people of Scotland have since changed their minds", and that became the leading narrative to the indyref negotiations. You'd be fuming, right?

Yeah, DITTO!!
Click to expand...
Mate, you forget my views of the original referendum (i dont expect you to remember). I don't respect the illegality and corruption that surrounded it and in all probability tainted the result. There is no point in reopening that as a discussion, I merely raise it to explain why i don't respect the initial result.

If similar corruption had impacted indyref then I would have a similar disdain for it. Putting all that aside. I have a democratic right to continue to argue for remain as do others. To blame us for Brexit not being delivered is just avoiding the truth of this flawed and pointless clusterfuck.
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
So we're back to "fuck the leavers" talk?

Sorry, unless you remainers can offer a deal we leavers will accept, we'll have to continue with the "you lost get over it" narrative. Not helpful? "well it's helpful to those of us who wish to leave, mate"
Click to expand...
Nowhere have I said fuck the leavers mate. I haven't ever said that and don't think it so please don't do that. I have a right to argue for remain and to support anyone that has similar beliefs, that is all.
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Mate, you forget my views of the original referendum (i dont expect you to remember). I don't respect the illegality and corruption that surrounded it and in all probability tainted the result. There is no point in reopening that as a discussion, I merely raise it to explain why i don't respect the initial result.

If similar corruption had impacted indyref then I would have a similar disdain for it. Putting all that aside. I have a democratic right to continue to argue for remain as do others. To blame us for Brexit not being delivered is just avoiding the truth of this flawed and pointless clusterfuck.
Click to expand...
Yeah you do.

But don't expect ANY empathy or respect from the leave side should you continue with this narrative.

And if your response to that is "I don't care about what leavers think", then the feeling is mutual, and this is typical of why these talks have lasted three bloody years.

You're talking to someone who WANTS a compromise, who respects remainers concerns and their position. I've relented on the four freedoms, the single market, and a temporary customs union. WHat have you ever relented on?
 
Saddleworth2 said:
Nowhere have I said fuck the leavers mate. I haven't ever said that and don't think it so please don't do that. I have a right to argue for remain and to support anyone that has similar beliefs, that is all.
Click to expand...
Trust me, unknowingly, you have.

So i'll ask you straight up; how does remaining appease 17,410,000 leave voters? (more than thrice the population of Scotland, or the entirety of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, just for a mental visual)
 
Mëtal Bikër said:
So we're back to "fuck the leavers" talk?

Sorry, unless you remainers can offer a deal we leavers will accept, we'll have to continue with the "you lost get over it" narrative. Not helpful? "well it's helpful to those of us who wish to leave, mate"
Click to expand...

Remain party’s can’t offer a workable alternative because they Do not have a majority. The indicative votes last year had a number of options. None of which passed in the house due to the parliamentary arithmetic.

Surely If you want your EFTA style Brexit, the best option would be to vote labour and hope they get a majority the the general election. Their version of Brexit is nothing like the Tory’s.
 
Hesperus said:
Remain party’s can’t offer a workable alternative because they Do not have a majority. The indicative votes last year had a number of options. None of which passed in the house due to the parliamentary arithmetic.

Surely If you want your EFTA style Brexit, the best option would be to vote labour and hope they get a majority the the general election. Their version of Brexit is nothing like the Tory’s.
Click to expand...
Well I wasn't discussing voting intentions but thanks for your input.

I don't agree that Labour will EVER agree to take us out of the EU, though.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top