Another new Brexit thread

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mcfc1632 said:
Only an appropriate response to an direct and nonsensical attack at me.

I have said that the threat of No-Deal would see the EU move

The EU were in a position where they had moved beyond things that were discussed years ago and banked May's WA and were adamant that they would not reopen it

Johnson showed some political will to use a No-Deal outcome and even though the EU had every reason to be confident in their sycophants surrender act - just the threat of a No-Deal was enough for them to move.

So........

1. Did the EU state without ambiguity that they would not reopen the WA? - absolutely

2. Have they reopened the WA? - absolutely

3. Therefore have they moved? - absolutely

4. Therefore should I regard BJ's post as utter bollocks and was my response appropriate? - absolutely

You will likley have missed the 100s of rants BJ has had at me on these threads (FFS it was funny after all the shit he gives out to see him crying about a couple of digs that he imagined on another thread) - so trust me - the response I gave was as fulsome as was deserved
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Mike D said:
Lisa-OCarroll-byline-004.jpg


Lisa O'Carroll

There are multiple reports that the DUP is being offered a significant cash deal alongside the Brexit pact.

The Financial Times is reporting sources as saying the DUP were being offered “billions not millions” as a sweetener.

The Irish Times also noted the offer of “a multimillion-euro package of investment funded by the EU, London and Dublin”. They are reporting indications that “political agreement had been reached on the main points and precise details were being worked through”.

I have no idea what the deal (if there is one) looks like this but if this is anything to go by having to buy the DUP off again it sucks!! worse than the May deal and I didn't think that was possible.
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Looks like the DUP will be bribed again (With taxpayers money).... and get their own way with the removal of the right of a citizen of Northern Ireland to have Irish citizenship (in direct breach of the GFA

The Tories are desperate to get this done and are now behaving liked cornered dogs...... which should make everyone stop and wonder why.

 
kevin horlocks wand said:
They will change their mind (again) and benn or someone else will bring a motion that there is a second referendum on Boris deal ( what is it we are allowed to call him , as well as ****) or remain.

Because the general public were not intelligent to vote on a simple in or out deal they say , so instead they want them to read and vote on a complex agreement that has taken years to negotiate between politicians civil servants and 100’s of lawyers - or stay as we are.
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We don't need to read the deal. obviously can if we want to. But we as a public should understand what the implications really are, how vastly different they are from what was promised, and have the chance to decide if it is indeed what was voted for. For the sake of going forward and avoiding further division and pulling to extremes.
 
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blueinsa said:
Interesting post as always mate although from my own point of view my argument is not to deny the legitimacy of parliament, just to insist they honour the pre ref promises that they would honour the result after they had effectively relinquished their sovereign power to the people.

It was our decision they said.
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And we were told we’d still have free trade with Europe. That’s not what is on offer.

Put whatever ‘deal’ we get from the EU to the vote rather than the mythical land of milk and honey lies people were fed.
 
Vic said:
That's a brilliant rebuttal of the accusation that MPs are all acting in their own interest rather than the national interest. (It doesn't matter if their view of the national interest is right - just that their view is nothing to do with furthering their own ambition. Johnson excepted of course.)
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I particularly like one of the comments, comparing it to the mutiny of the bounty.

'get rid of the elites, end up stranded on an island'. lols
 
SWP's back said:
And we were told we’d still have free trade with Europe. That’s not what is on offer.

Put whatever ‘deal’ we get from the EU to the vote rather than the mythical land of milk and honey lies people were fed.
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In politics we rarely if ever get what we are promised.

I know this much and that is we have never ignored a vote and i remember pre ref the talk of the EU frustrating a decision, much like the Irish until the point they change their minds and give the correct answer, helped by many MP's in parliament.

Exactly what is afoot right now.
 
blueinsa said:
In politics we rarely if ever get what we are promised.

I know this much and that is we have never ignored a vote and i remember pre ref the talk of the EU frustrating a decision, much like the Irish until the point they change their minds and give the correct answer, helped by many MP's in parliament.

Exactly what is afoot right now.
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It is not nor has it ever been being ignored. It is in process.

Shouting only one single route of democracy is hardly democratic. Why such opposition to being asked again? your mind is well made up, but do you not respect that there might be others whose isn't? Do they not deserve democracy as well? and indeed, if it is, the numbers will be the same, but least it then commits it to the specific outcome, and makes it more transparent.
 
blueinsa said:
In politics we rarely if ever get what we are promised.

I know this much and that is we have never ignored a vote and i remember pre ref the talk of the EU frustrating a decision, much like the Irish until the point they change their minds and give the correct answer, helped by many MP's in parliament.

Exactly what is afoot right now.
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The vote wouldn’t have even been close without the lies that were spun about how Brexit would pan out.

That’s why we need a vote on the actual deal.

Don’t worry, I understand perfectly well why you’re against that.
 
SWP's back said:
And we were told we’d still have free trade with Europe. That’s not what is on offer.

Put whatever ‘deal’ we get from the EU to the vote rather than the mythical land of milk and honey lies people were fed.
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Question: is the honey from flowers, and the milk from cows grazing in the sunlit uplands?
 
blueinsa said:
In politics we rarely if ever get what we are promised.

I know this much and that is we have never ignored a vote and i remember pre ref the talk of the EU frustrating a decision, much like the Irish until the point they change their minds and give the correct answer, helped by many MP's in parliament.

Exactly what is afoot right now.
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Ignoring the vote is not really true is it - or have i been in a mad dream for the last 3 years where the UK political system pretty much fell apart as they try to deliver the impossible.

We have done nothing else as a country since. 1 General Election and approaching a second (we should have one every 5 years!) because it can't be done. The government held in contempt of parliament, 2 PMs have resigned over it.

The vote has not been ignored. But the time to accept we have to ignore it or vote again is fast approaching.
 
Coatigan said:
It is not nor has it ever been being ignored. It is in process.

Shouting only one single route of democracy is hardly democratic. Why such opposition to being asked again? your mind is well made up, but do you not respect that there might be others whose isn't? Do they not deserve democracy as well? and indeed, if it is, the numbers will be the same, but least it then commits it to the specific outcome, and makes it more transparent.
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Yet you are trying to reinvent our democratic process.

Since when have we had a vote and immediately said to the losing side right how do you want us to implement our policies?

Yes wins does the SNP turn to NO and say right, lets work with you here on this?

Im not shouting, im telling you how our system has worked for ever and a day.

Brexit has seemingly rewritten the rules and i cant wait for the next GE and as the winner is announced the opposition refuse to accept the result or the calls for it to be ignored and everyone sharing power because many didn't vote for the government so who represents them etc.

If YES wins by one single vote then independence should happen.

If the Greens win Brighton by election by one single vote they take the seat and everyone else takes it on the chin.

If Labour win a GE by one single vote then they should take power.

There is no lucky or plucky loser badge in our politics and never has been.
 
Brexit's staunchest supporter on BM, never wavering, akin to the japanese soldier defending his island years after the war ended. Caustic one-liner insults/put-downs with a take-no-prisoner 'tude, tbh a belligerent bleeder. Pity his priorities are at odds with those who view tory-style "democracy" as a major reason to stick with it's nemesis, EU democracy. A non-binding vote which became a "broken promise by politicians" ( how rare is that ?) has become his surrogate island. Fwiw my view is you cannot "damage" something already twisted and manipulated and "semanticised" into the " do not revive ward."
 
SWP's back said:
The vote wouldn’t have even been close without the lies that were spun about how Brexit would pan out.

That’s why we need a vote on the actual deal.

Don’t worry, I understand perfectly well why you’re against that.
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Yet here we are and virtually no one has changed their minds in 3 years.

That suggests to me that the lies that came from both sides barely had an impact.
 
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