Another new Brexit thread

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dave_blue12 said:
It is clear the twats that lead us into this mess had no understanding of what they were doing. Ignorant self entitled posh boys who don’t think that the rules apply to them.

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You actually missed out the bit about the free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.

Three years on and they are still lying through their teeth.

David Davies on "Today". Still deluded.

Asked whether this deal - "which sounds like Canada minus" - would give any benefit at all, he said freedom to trade with the rest of the world would be "spectacularly valuable".
 
blueinsa said:
Interesting post as always mate although from my own point of view my argument is not to deny the legitimacy of parliament, just to insist they honour the pre ref promises that they would honour the result after they had effectively relinquished their sovereign power to the people.

It was our decision they said.

Parliament has cause the shit show, not the vote and the last 3 years have been an utter disgrace. They could have said look, we dont like it but we said we would leave if that was the wish of the people and got on with it or they could have said fuck the vote, we dont like it and we are not going to leave and we will take our chance with the electorate afterwards.

They have done neither with booth sides blaming the other and it has turned into an issue that some see as an opportunity to power grab or further their own independence.

I stand by my position of the last three years and that is we voted to leave and if we dont then our democracy is dead and we might as well no longer bother.
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They will change their mind (again) and benn or someone else will bring a motion that there is a second referendum on Boris deal ( what is it we are allowed to call him , as well as ****) or remain.

Because the general public were not intelligent to vote on a simple in or out deal they say , so instead they want them to read and vote on a complex agreement that has taken years to negotiate between politicians civil servants and 100’s of lawyers - or stay as we are.
 
blueinsa said:
Its akin to Westminster saying yes to a second indy ref in Scotland and Yes winning only for Westminster to then argue for three years and basically refuse to carry out the result.

How would you feel about that?

As a democrat who would vote no in that ref i would be fucking livid, enough so to campaign that we must leave because to not do so harms our democracy beyond repair.

I cant quite get my head around just how many people are willing to ignore a democratic vote i honestly cant?
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It's only because of that latter view that there is any chance that a new referendum would not be massively to remain.

Without going through the obvious "it's not been ignored" argument, or that it was advisory, is there for you no horrible outcome of leaving that would merit a democratic rethink? Again without going down the role of the EU in keeping peace in Europe, would it be worth WW3 to honour the 2016 referendum result?

Obviously things like the Irish question, and the break up of the UK, economic decline, loss of the car industry (yeah sure it's all down to diesel), national humiliation, and Boris Johnson as PM haven't been enough to merit a rethink.

What's your breaking point? I think you know what mine was. See post above.
 
Vic said:
It's only because of that latter view that there is any chance that a new referendum would not be massively to remain.

Without going through the obvious "it's not been ignored" argument, or that it was advisory, is there for you no horrible outcome of leaving that would merit a democratic rethink? Again without going down the role of the EU in keeping peace in Europe, would it be worth WW3 to honour the 2016 referendum result?

Obviously things like the Irish question, and the break up of the UK, economic decline, loss of the car industry (yeah sure it's all down to diesel), national humiliation, and Boris Johnson as PM haven't been enough to merit a rethink.

What's your breaking point? I think you know what mine was. See post above.
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Boredom. You are missing your ace card that people are bored to the back teeth of it , remain should just change their slogan

Bored of brexit, bored of endless bickering on the tv and radio, then it’s time to vote remain.

Landslide.
 
dave_blue12 said:
Times article that everyone should read

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That's a brilliant rebuttal of the accusation that MPs are all acting in their own interest rather than the national interest. (It doesn't matter if their view of the national interest is right - just that their view is nothing to do with furthering their own ambition. Johnson excepted of course.)
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
They will change their mind (again) and benn or someone else will bring a motion that there is a second referendum on Boris deal ( what is it we are allowed to call him , as well as ****) or remain.

Because the general public were not intelligent to vote on a simple in or out deal they say , so instead they want them to read and vote on a complex agreement that has taken years to negotiate between politicians civil servants and 100’s of lawyers - or stay as we are.
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Reality at last!

That was Rees-Mogg's idea.
 
Lisa-OCarroll-byline-004.jpg


Lisa O'Carroll

There are multiple reports that the DUP is being offered a significant cash deal alongside the Brexit pact.

The Financial Times is reporting sources as saying the DUP were being offered “billions not millions” as a sweetener.

The Irish Times also noted the offer of “a multimillion-euro package of investment funded by the EU, London and Dublin”. They are reporting indications that “political agreement had been reached on the main points and precise details were being worked through”.

I have no idea what the deal (if there is one) looks like this but if this is anything to go by having to buy the DUP off again it sucks!! worse than the May deal and I didn't think that was possible.
 
Coatigan said:
That isn't snide dismissal then. Ok.
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Only an appropriate response to a direct and nonsensical attack at me.

I have said that the threat of No-Deal would see the EU move

The EU were in a position where they had moved beyond things that were discussed years ago and banked May's WA - especially with the unfettered backstop they love - and were adamant that they would not reopen it

Johnson showed some political will to use a No-Deal outcome and even though the EU had every reason to be confident in their sycophant's surrender act - just the threat of a No-Deal was enough for them to move.

So........

1. Did the EU state without ambiguity that they would not reopen the WA? - absolutely

2. Have they reopened the WA? - absolutely

3. Therefore have they moved? - absolutely

4. Therefore should I regard BJ's post as utter bollocks and was my response appropriate? - absolutely

You will likley have missed the 100s of rants BJ has had at me on these threads (FFS it was funny after all the shit he gives out to see him crying about a couple of digs that he imagined on another thread) - so trust me - the response I gave was as fulsome as was deserved
 
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Vic said:
I'm not sure any government with a majority of minus 50 is legitimate.
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I don't think its a question of the current government, it is an overall question about future government and where democratic legitimacy ultimately resides
 
kevin horlocks wand said:
Boredom. You are missing your ace card that people are bored to the back teeth of it , remain should just change their slogan

Bored of brexit, bored of endless bickering on the tv and radio, then it’s time to vote remain.

Landslide.
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If you're suggesting people were too thick to realise it would be difficult...

Like Henning Wehn said, the question should have been a choice between "normality" and "never-ending palaver".
 
Vic said:
If you're suggesting people were too thick to realise it would be difficult...

Like Henning Wehn said, the question should have been a choice between "normality" and "never-ending palaver".
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Clever people can get bored of something vic, even you should be able to know that.
 
Rascal said:
I don't think its a question of the current government, it is an overall question about future government and where democratic legitimacy ultimately resides
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Who governs derives from who gets elected to Parliament. Parliament is sovereign.
 
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