Another new Brexit thread

[Gaylord du Bois]

As I said a few posts up, the DUP are not the holders of a casting vote as they were earlier in Mays Parliament. It's probably more important for BJ to come back with something that most of his party plus a decent chunk of Labour MP's will vote for.

Yep. More bark than bite since Mays demise and with a general election looming.

 

[Coatigan]

Maybe Remainers just shouldn’t be allowed to vote in a second ref then it wouldn’t matter what we want? After all, you won and we lost. We know our place.

Well Leavers do own democracy.

The problem with Brexit was, it covered/promised whatever anyone needed it to cover.

It was like asking, do you want 'change'.
Yes, one wants Change A, the other Change B, some Change C, D, etc. Some want A & B, but not C. Some want none of the above but do want change, domestically, i.e upsetting the 'elites'.

So surely any democratic referendum is 'This Change' (the deal) vs No Change.

 

[mcfc1632]

Only if we have left the EU. Duuhh.

(and I said a Labour Government, not a Corbyn Government. My hope is that he will still be replaced)

He will stand down if they lose the upcoming GE - IMO

Hence the moves at conference to ensure that the future candidates are of the correct profile

 

[mcfc1632]

What annoys me is you then have three people liking it and using it as justification for their own opinion and not even questioning if it’s valid, which is even more important in the world of googling on the fly making everyone think they’re experts, and social media misinformation.

I can think of several Remainers that I assume this post must be aimed at

 

[Coatigan]

The exact same rule as i had in the first ref and that is one single vote wins it.

Had remain wont the first by one vote that's he end of the matter as far as I am concerned and we remain.

By all means change the rules for future questions that might be asked of the electorate and make a super majority the rules for change but to impose that halfway through this process isn't really fair imo and smacks of remain yet again wanting to weigh the vote in their favour.

Parliament needs to do its job.

Shit or get off the pot, leave or remain and lets move onto a GE and we can decide if they deserve another chance or we can change the make up of Parliament.

Would it Fuck! I recognise you speak for yourself, and i believe you, but you can't actually beleive that would have been the end of it if remain won. The leave camp even promised as much. Not that that is a legitimate reason for a second referendum requirement, just lets not kid ourselves on moral high grounds.

If it was as simple, as was promised, fair enough. It isn't. Even animals re-examie their decisions. Only a perverse abstraction of democracy is what is used to justify marching on blindly into something clearly damaging, which most might not want. A second 'clear' referendum removes that. Then by all means, march away, if that is the transparent choice.

 

[Ban-jani]

Cling on to that mate. 3 years to sort out this clusterfuck and its still a clusterfuck. Plenty chance for Mays deal to be accepted by the HoC but it was voted against by Brexiteers. Now those Brexiteers are in charge and it looks very unlikely they will get a better deal than the one they voted against. How many years do you want to try and make this work?
Put the best deal you can manage vs Remain and winner takes all. The reason you don't want that is you know what the outcome will be.

A 2nd referendum should only be implemented if parliament can not find a way through.

If Johnson gets a deal and it passes, there’s no need to have another vote.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

A 2nd referendum should only be implemented if parliament can not find a way through.

If Johnson gets a deal and it passes, there’s no need to have another vote.

Correct - and there are deals that can easily be done. The corner that BoJo and the Tories have backed themselves into is of there own making. It screws NI and that is due to their red lines and their hard line approach.

 

[blueinsa]

Breaking reports (multiple) of white smoke and that a deal has been agreed

 

[Ban-jani]

Correct - and there are deals that can easily be done. The corner that BoJo and the Tories have backed themselves into is of there own making. It screws NI and that is due to their red lines and their hard line approach.

I’m a firm believer in our representative democracy and if our representatives vote it through then that’s that.

 

[TheRemainsOfTheDave]

Would it Fuck! I recognise you speak for yourself, and i believe you, but you can't actually beleive that would have been the end of it if remain won. The leave camp even promised as much. Not that that is a legitimate reason for a second referendum requirement, just lets not kid ourselves on moral high grounds.

If it was as simple, as was promised, fair enough. It isn't. Even animals re-examie their decisions. Only a perverse abstraction of democracy is what is used to justify marching on blindly into something clearly damaging, which most might not want. A second 'clear' referendum removes that. Then by all means, march away, if that is the transparent choice.

So you're suggesting the second vote needs a super-majority? At what level do you set that so that in the future we can not re-examine the result?

The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Everyone agrees (and I mean EVERYONE) that the first referendum was stupid, having another borders on insanity. It is almost certain to NOT return a super-majority and is likely to just reset us back to the divisions we were at 3 years ago. It is a backward step. The politicians started this back in 2015 by allowing the vote, the major parties confirmed it by supporting the result, it needs to be returned to them to finish it and then we can slaughter them at the next election based on how each MP performed.

 

[George Hannah]

Deal struck! Juncker tweets.
'Where there is a will there is a deal'

BoJo tweeting too

 

[Ban-jani]

Breaking reports (multiple) of white smoke and that a deal has been agreed

Also reports that the Labour leadership is going whip to back the deal.

 

[blueinsa]

Over to parliament.

lets see how many of them are genuine democrats that just wanted no deal off the table shall we?

 

[purplenose]

The whole thing from start to finish has been shameful and exposed the sad truth of the dishonesty and self serving nature of the politicians acrooss the parties and for that matter across the Channel and the North Sea. In the sense of acting as a warning not to trust these cunts it may have been a good thing.

I am a leaver and the fact is that we should have been out long ago, the fact we are not is prove if ever it were needed that democracy and freedom in this country is a figment of the imagination. However we are not out or anywhere near it. This whole debacle if nothing else has been unique in many ways not least in so much as its surely the first campaign to have been run by both sides hell bent on lying through there teeth and indulging in any form of corruption and foul play from start to finish.

Whilst it is a disgrace that the vote was not acted upon I honestly cannot see any other reasonable solution other than a second vote, given the timescale since the last one and the whole disgraceful clusterfuck that has been made of it by all parties involved. Its not ideal but its probably the only way.

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

Also reports that the Labour leadership is going whip to back the deal.

Seriously ?

 

[Ban-jani]

The whole thing from start to finish has been shameful and exposed the sad truth of the dishonesty and self serving nature of the politicians acrooss the parties and for that matter across the Channel and the North Sea. In the sense of acting as a warning not to trust these cunts it may have been a good thing.

I am a leaver and the fact is that we should have been out long ago, the fact we are not is prove if ever it were needed that democracy and freedom in this country is a figment of the imagination. However we are not out or anywhere near it. This whole debacle if nothing else has been unique in many ways not least in so much as its surely the first campaign to have been run by both sides hell bent on lying through there teeth and indulging in any form of corruption and foul play from start to finish.

Whilst it is a disgrace that the vote was not acted upon I honestly cannot see any other reasonable solution other than a second vote, given the timescale since the last one and the whole disgraceful clusterfuck that has been made of it by all parties involved. Its not ideal but its probably the only way.

Johnson has just got a deal done lol.

 

[Ban-jani]

Seriously ?

According to a few tabloids yeah.

I don’t think he has a choice.

 

[George Hannah]

Johnson has just got a deal done lol.

The Brexit Tunnel - London at one end and Brussells at the other -
"and the light at the end of the tunnel, is the light of an oncoming train"
Half Man Half Biscuit

 

[Gaylord du Bois]

According to a few tabloids yeah.

I don’t think he has a choice.

With a 2nd referendum caveat I'd imagine.

 

[Ban-jani]

I suspected this as they said earlier no negotiations today, I thought it’s either dead or it’s been done.

Parliament will back it I think.

May must be pissed off.