Another new Brexit thread

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Labours stance is pretty clear, they want a second referendum.
I agree they won't win an election with Corbyn though

Agree - there stance has been liquid - it looks like they will vote for the deal + 2nd Ref. And if the 2nd ref amendment fails they will vote against. I'll take that and I hope we do get a 2nd ref on this basis. No deal should not be an option in a 2nd Ref so this is a good outcome.

As for a GE. Labour will not do well but they wont tank - people easily forget that that the Labour vote is very pro remain and the Lib Dem's don't do well in many of these seats. Tactical voting and the brexit party impact will see them over the line in most northern seats. The + point is that Corbyn will have to go and with luck some of the nutters will resign on principle and a moderate leader will get a shot.

 

[Saddleworth2]

A 2nd referendum should only be implemented if parliament can not find a way through.

If Johnson gets a deal and it passes, there’s no need to have another vote.

it’s got little chance without DUP.

 

[blueinsa]

So now no deal is officially off the table and a deal is on at least the remain MP's in parliament can drop their act and the country can see them for what they are really about.

Time to shit or get off the pot to them all.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

Farage has just spoken on BBC and he hates the new deal, clean break blah blah - anyway makes the likelihood of a pact at the GE with Tories highly unlikely which changes the dynamics

 

[blueinsa]

This is potentially a route to no deal.

So the MP's against no deal can vote for the deal and take that option away cant they?

Or do they just want to stop brexit altogether and the Benn act etc is nothing but bullshit on their part?

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Yes but they offered this to May in 2016 and she sounded out DUP and Tory opinion and the likes of JRM called it “cretinous”, due to NI being in a separate agreement.

I’m not saying it’s the same as May’s, I’m saying it was offered by the EU in 2016.

This isn’t anything Johnson has done, other than make concessions and take it.

To be fair he wasn’t in power then.

He reopened the withdrawal agreement, which was apparently impossible

 

[Coatigan]

I don't see anything but a big conservative win really. Their influence on the media is so strong, if any other party had screwed up this badly over 3 years they'd be finished.

Why would we need a G.E if a deal goes through?

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

They can vote against it with a clear conscience if worker's rights are being seriously eroded - and they should be able to convince their constituents that it's the right thing to do.

With no legal text and Boris 'the liar' Johnson behind it how could any Labour MP vote for it?

* I fully expect Kate Hoey and John Mann to vote for it *

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

They can vote against it with a clear conscience if worker's rights are being seriously eroded - and they should be able to convince their constituents that it's the right thing to do.

You really think that’s a good enough excuse not to vote for a deal ?? The same constituencies who overwhelmingly voted leave.

Lisa nandy for instance will get hounded out if she did that

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

With no legal text and Boris 'the liar' Johnson behind it how could any Labour MP vote for it?

* I fully expect Kate Hoey and John Mann to vote for it *

anyone respects democracy and is in a huge leave voting area ie most labour mps could easily justify voting for it. It’s not that hard to understand why they would

 

[Ban-jani]

To be fair he wasn’t in power then.

He reopened the withdrawal agreement, which was apparently impossible

He was the Foreign Secretary and the members of his Cabinet were against it.

He didn’t “reopen” the Withdrawal Agreement, he took the Irish part of another one offered and added it.

 

[journolud]

Doesn't this question equally apply to every referendum and election in history, one day after they happened?

Yes and there is the chance to overturn a previous election result every five years. In the case of a specific Brexit referendum nobody expected the shit show we’ve had for the past three years. I’m not sure that the deal that has now been agreed will be universally approved of by all leavers never mind remainders. The circumstances are unique and I don’t think it is undemocratic to check the public approve of the deal or not. Three years is a pretty long cooling off period though.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Why would we need a G.E if a deal goes through?

Because it's going to be rejected by commons

 

[Mike D]

Why would we need a G.E if a deal goes through?

That would depend on the opposition and why would they let him have one?

 

[inbetween]

With no legal text and Boris 'the liar' Johnson behind it how could any Labour MP vote for it?

* I fully expect Kate Hoey and John Mann to vote for it *

What about the Labour voting leave areas?

Are their MP's seriously going to go against their wishes at the final hurdle and on the basis of what?

if I voted Labour and leave, why would I vote for Labour again if their policy is to ignore me and half heartedly negotiate a deal that they will reject for remain?

Rejecting this deal is electoral suicide for those in Labour leave seats.

 

[Saddleworth2]

Pretty clear that it’s going to result in a second referendum I think.

 

[mat]

Why would we need a G.E if a deal goes through?

To gain a majority to push their new domestic agenda?

Good point though. They could limp on for another 6 months. Build up the anti labour sentiment through Rupert and his mates then call a GE and win a decent majority.


The "deal" Is a trap. The PM knows it's not being voted in. He can then blame parliament for the no deal and the chaos his party will take advantage of after using the cover of your parliament inflicted it on you.

 

[dave_blue12]

MP's didn't get a say on EU trade deals so what has changed.

We will elect the MP's who do have a say.

The EU acted in the interests of 27 countries.

The problem is that this Government should they continue in power are liable to sign up to things that Parliament and the people would not want. I have no faith that Johnson and his buddies will act in anything other than their own self interests.

I have seen some on here say that once Brexit is done we can elect a Government that will truly look after the people (paraphrasing). This is naive, when were things ever that simple and even if a socially responsible Government were elected by then much damage could already have been done. International treaties are not easily undone.

If you don't subscribe to this and call project fear then fair enough. I have no such faith in the cunts that are currently running this country.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

You really think that’s a good enough excuse not to vote for a deal ?? The same constituencies who overwhelmingly voted leave.

Lisa nandy for instance will get hounded out if she did that

anyone respects democracy and is in a huge leave voting area ie most labour mps could easily justify voting for it. It’s not that hard to understand why they would

Not that simple is it. A tory brexit is a million miles away from a labour brexit. Any deal that erodes workers rights and costs people jobs will not be a vote winner for Labour. Without seeing the detail it is hard to know what this deal is like but it is a fairly safe guess to assume it is nothing like the CM2 type deal that S Kinock has been pushing.

 

[Mike D]

anyone respects democracy and is in a huge leave voting area ie most labour mps could easily justify voting for it. It’s not that hard to understand why they would

But then there's the question that it has been some time since the referendum and the MP is voting on the best interests of the constituency, they do have a right as MP to make a judgement call.