Another new Brexit thread

[west didsblue]

Lol. I take it you don’t venture into the politics forum very often? If you’re offended by this, I implore you not to read, say, the Corbyn thread.

Not really sure why some Leavers are seemingly so angry anyway. I think you’ll most likely get your deal early next week. You probably would’ve got it today if the government themselves hadn’t pulled the vote.

Indeed. Pulling the vote makes me suspicious that MPs were right to be making sure that Johnson couldn’t spring No Deal on us at the 11th hour.

 

[Ban-jani]

I think you’re confusing acting against it with ensuring our duplicitous PM doesn’t use his deal as a vehicle to engineer No Deal. So far he’s proven to be about as trustworthy as Donald Trump so it is logical to make sure that avenue isn’t open to him.

There’s no chance if this passes we end up with no deal, no chance

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Lol. I take it you don’t venture into the politics forum very often? If you’re offended by this, I implore you not to read, say, the Corbyn thread.

Not really sure why some Leavers are seemingly so angry anyway. I think you’ll most likely get your deal early next week. You probably would’ve got it today if the government themselves hadn’t pulled the vote.

If the letwin amendment is indeed about making sure we just leave with a deal , fine. No problem.

But me thinks it’s just another obstacle to try and overturn the referendum.

 

[George Hannah]

Because you elect a representative not a delegate. And they have a posttbag full of letters from leavers who want different sorts of leave.

Who presumably voted to give them a referendum to decide an issue where those constituents' majority decision to leave - if, as in this case, was repeated nationally - would be honoured by actually voting to leave on the government's agreed deal. That's what holding a referendum is all about actually.

 

[Ric]

If the letwin amendment is indeed about making sure we just leave with a deal , fine. No problem.

But me thinks it’s just another obstacle to try and overturn the referendum.

Letwin himself has said he’s voting for the deal!

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Letwin himself has said he’s voting for the deal!

Good all good then.

 

[west didsblue]

There’s no chance if this passes we end up with no deal, no chance

Difficult to prove one way or another but I disagree. If it happens it would be after transition and an election.

 

[Ban-jani]

At last.

You and Chippy seen the light at last.

We haven’t.

Voting leave is brain dead but we have now so get on with it.

 

[George Hannah]

Letwin himself has said he’s voting for the deal!

I wonder if that intention extends to all the clauses during its passage.

 

[Ric]

And yes I am offended by some of the responses on here and find them very disappointing to be honest but I understand it's a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
It's the hostility that's too much.

For what it’s worth I agree that the hostility is too much, hence the repeated (largely ignored) requests for people to keep things civil. It’s very much from both sides though.

 

[blueinsa]

We haven’t.

Voting leave is brain dead but we have now so get on with it.

We have.

Its been my virtually sole opinion the last 3 years.

Yes i voted to leave but I've said, had remain won by 1 vote and Parliament said fuck that we are leaving i would have fought tooth and nail to remain because that's what the electorate had decided.

You have finally got it.

 

[Ric]

I wonder if that intention extends to all the clauses during its passage.

I would hope he, and all of his colleagues, will judge each one on its individual merits and vote accordingly. That’s what they are there for.

 

[BobKowalski]

But can we in all conscience pass an act that puts up an internal border in our own Union and renders it apart? Surely that is something *checks notes* no British PM could ever entertain?

(Not now Nicola! Crying out loud...)

 

[west didsblue]

We haven’t.

Voting leave is brain dead but we have now so get on with it.

Sorry I can’t agree that the significant risk of a break up of the UK union is a price worth paying for the outcome of an advisory vote.
Let’s have a deal in line with the promises made by the Leave campaign and I’d be happy for us to get on with that.

 

[George Hannah]

I would hope he, and all of his colleagues, will judge each one on its individual merits and vote accordingly. That’s what they are there for.

and I wonder if the deal would actually ever be enacted in those circumstances.

 

[Ban-jani]

We have.

Its been my virtually sole opinion the last 3 years.

Yes i voted to leave but I've said, had remain won by 1 vote and Parliament said fuck that we are leaving i would have fought tooth and nail to remain because that's what the electorate had decided.

You have finally got it.

I never hadn’t got it.

We must leave and we must do with a deal. Any other outcome is a disgrace.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

If the letwin amendment is indeed about making sure we just leave with a deal , fine. No problem.

But me thinks it’s just another obstacle to try and overturn the referendum.

I can see both sides tbh. No harm in locking no deal away now we have a deal, but if it's just a mechanism for kicking the can while other ways to stop brexit are found then that's poor. I think there are probably a mixture both these intentions from those that voted for the ammendment

 

[hilts]

It's all arguments across the country I get it but if your a "leaver" it's as if your classed as thick, a traitor and an idiot.
And yes I am offended by some of the responses on here and find them very disappointing to be honest but I understand it's a forum and everyone is entitled to their opinion.
It's the hostility that's too much.

Hostility is fine until the insults get evened up, as a rule remainer echo chamber plays a little longer I find. Anyhow today was another frustrating day for anyone who believes in true democracy or just an end to this whole sorry saga.

 

[I'm no cynic but...]

Moving on from here, it seems that only a second referendum is a way out of this mess but at the same time this second referendum could leave us with more problems than ever. The 2016 referendum had a straight choice, leave or remain. The result was Leave with a 51.9% vote, Remain scored 48.1%. The majority was 1,269,501 for the leavers. Despite this, Parliament has fought tooth and nail to get the nation out of their commitment to carry out the wishes of the majority. We can argue all day [or over three years] to find an agreement that is acceptable to Parliament, the EU and to the British electorate but that isn't going to happen and, if the 'second referendumers' get their way then there is going to be at least one other ballot, or more until we get the result that Parliament wants.

But what is to go on this ballot? Is it going to be another yes or no choice, or is it going to be a fudge by offering multiple options? I call it a fudge because, if the most talked about options are anything to go by then there will be three choices [1] Remain [2] Leave with a deal, or [3] Leave without a deal. This would be a dangerous ballot as the winning result would still need a majority vote of over 50% to make it viable. If one of these options was declared to be the 'winner' by scoring, say, 40% of the vote with the others totalling 30% each, then how could 40% be deemed a binding verdict when 60% voted against it whereas over 50% of the 2016 ballot had their wishes obstructed?

The more I look at it, the more it seems to resemble banana republics and their attitudes towards their electorates.

 

[George Hannah]