Another new Brexit thread

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Its not what MP's say when defending their positions rascal.

"My constituents have told me they want to remain, they want a ref, they want brexit respected, they want us to leave"

What it it? Do they represent their constituents or not?

Of course they do, they where voted in by them.

It’s their job to represent all their constituents, not just the ones that voted them in.

 

[Saddleworth2]

None of that matters because it’s nothing to do with democracy.

Thats why I cannot understand all this 'ashamed of parliament' guff.

 

[blueinsa]

Oh, you are clever, I see what you have done there, added a seventh point to Labours six!
The mistrust of Johnson throughout the HoC (Tories included) means there will be no GE called until the chances of a no deal brexit are nil. Lets see what happens once the extension has been granted.

My guess is they will sit, hide behind the fixed parliament act and will not do anything until that has ended, brexit is done which is what Corbyn wants anyway or the polls are so on Labours side they know they cant lose.

 

[Rascal]

Its not what MP's say when defending their positions rascal.

"My constituents have told me they want to remain, they want a ref, they want brexit respected, they want us to leave"

What it it? Do they represent their constituents or not?

Of course they do, they where voted in by them.

I was stating how it works , not how individual MPs act.

If they choose to represent their constituents wishes, that is an act of conscience, it is free will.

 

[adrianr]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...te-list-times-banana-brexit-bus-a8929076.html
Also Manx kippers, North Sea borders etc. etc.
Name another politician other than Trump and Farage who just makes shit up like he does.
Most dishonest politicians at least go to the effort of phrasing their falsehoods slightly ambiguously for plausible deniability.
Oh, and I also can’t stand Corbyn but don’t let that stand in the way of you pretending that anyone who dislikes Johnson must be a Corbyn lover.

Can confirm. Would rather both fucked off. Like Trump, I worry that it represents a slide towards normalizing this type of behaviour, whereby the leader of a country can do and say whatever he likes as long as he or she has enough people on their "team". It's not a game, and ultimately above all political differences if there are to be any sides at all, they should be right and wrong. Lying is patently wrong, and I'd hope we lived in a society where that can be held to account whether it's "your guy" doing it or not.

 

[hgblue]

My guess is they will sit, hide behind the fixed parliament act and will not do anything until that has ended, brexit is done which is what Corbyn wants anyway or the polls are so on Labours side they know they cant lose.

Labour have said they are refusing an election to stop no deal, once that’s gone as an option they will either have to agree to an election or admit they’re running scared. Neither appears to be an attractive option looking at the polls but my guess is they’ll have to go for it.

 

[bluethrunthru]

It’s their job to represent all their constituents, not just the ones that voted them in.

within the remit of their Party whip of course - I mean if a staunch Labour voter is in a strong Tory seat he can ask that MP to represent his views but not entitled to expect that the MP will call for say re-nationalisation of the railways just because a Labour voter wants it.

I know you are bright so I am not aiming this at you but really asking are you - like me - amazed that after 3 years of this shit there are so many people who claim to have been energised into politics when what they mean is they have taken a side in the Brexit debate and despite all that they see they are still clueless about politics in the UK. The parties, the way Parliament works, what the UK democracy is in terms of party and voting ( both in the house and FPTP ) and so on. I have seen people on the TV interviewed in the street surprised to learn that Farage for example isn't a sitting MP ( also amazed he has failed to get elected so many times ) and as such cannot therefore become PM and enact democracy (ie do what they want in regard to the one issue that interests them). Baffles me how little so many have learned since the referendum.

 

[Saddleworth2]

My guess is they will sit, hide behind the fixed parliament act and will not do anything until that has ended, brexit is done which is what Corbyn wants anyway or the polls are so on Labours side they know they cant lose.

Time will tell if you are correct. I'm done making political predictions. I will believe stuff only when the legislation has been passed and decisions implemented, and even then I might ask for a second opinion.

 

[blueinsa]

It’s their job to represent all their constituents, not just the ones that voted them in.

Real world it does not work like that.

My old town Heywood and Middleton.

Voted to leave, voted a Labour MP in after that vote on a manifesto promise to leave and she knew it and said she agreed.

Now on facebook claiming she has had letters from 80% of her constituents saying they want to remain and they want as second or confirmatory ref which is funnily enough Labour new policy.

My arse she has had letters for 80% constituents on any matter, never mind brexit and going off the replies on her facebook, they have told her to stop fucking telling lies and to look for another job come the next GE.

She is representing herself and her bosses wish alone.

 

[yerwot?]

Get over yourself FFS. (a) That's a wild exaggeration and (b) what's patently obvious is that it's not the alleged lies you object to, it's the fact that you don't agree with him. Corbyn hasn't stopped telling whoppers since he became leader, and yet I don't hear the same objections to those.

Telegraph owner re b.johnson-those nearest to him trust him the least. And thats from the brexit paymaster.....

 

[jay_mcfc]

You would have a point if at the GE Labour had said they would not vote for any brexit deal the government brought and that the Lib Dems had said they would campaign for revoke and that numerous MP's would desert those manifesto promises and move party.

Labour and Lib Dems lost the election. Their last election promises/policies matter diddly squat.

 

[blueinsa]

Labour and Lib Dems lost the election. Their last election promises/policies matter diddly squat.

Tell that to leave labour voters who elected labour MP's to leave seats.

Going to be funny as fuck when it dawns on you at the next GE what you have done it really is.

 

[aguero93:20]

From 2017 when anti austerity and anti brexit protests met up.....

Tut tut. Useless hanging them. You've to burn them alive and then scatter the ashes so they don't come back.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Tell that to leave labour voters who elected labour MP's to leave seats.

Going to be funny as fuck when it dawns on you at the next GE what you have done it really is.

You can see your arse about it all you want but Labour lost an election based on those manifesto policies. They have every right to go into the next election with different ideas. If that punishes them at the ballot box then they have to live with the consequences.

I am a bit confused though. I though that if Brexit doesn't go ahead that they'll be millions that will give up with democracy and won't vote again? Or will they vote in the biggest ever turnout and destroy remain mp's? Can't really be both.

Anyway, the result was 17 million one way to 16 million the other. Not really sure how that will result in the landslide you believe it will. Especially considering most polls now have remain at 54% and the Brexit party / Conservative split and the number of 15/16/17 year olds that weren't allowed to vote in the referendum etc.

ps 'I' haven't done anything. I'm just a bloke posting on a football forum.

 

[BobKowalski]

How do you know?

Details haven't even been shown to the MP's or so they claim?

It was actually remarkable yesterday listening to hours of what was wrong with the deal whilst they moaned they hadn't seen it.

Do you think our Parliament post brexit and out fo the EU would be responsible for ensuring workers rights?

To quote Starmer yesterday when it was pointed out we protect more holiday pay than the EU does, "well we wouldn't countenance as a parliament lessening rights"

Bingo Kier, bingo!

Its the next in a long line of scare stories remain is using to get what it wants.

Rights are not just laws. Rights should be protected within a constitution that cannot be amended except via a super majority. If rights can be removed by simple majority legislation then they are not rights. Our rights under EU law can only be protected as long as we are members of the EU which is why right wing Tories want us out of the EU as like the right to Freedom of Movement these guaranteed rights can then be removed or reduced.

The same applies on the left with State Aid restrictions etc.

It is not a scare story to say that minimum workers rights currently guaranteed will no longer be guaranteed. That is factually correct. Whether these rights will or will not be removed or reduced remains to be seen but importantly they are now in play.

However any comprehensive trade deal with the EU will undoubtedly see some of these rights guaranteed as part of that agreement (which again is why ERG Tories are keen for a minimal deal as possible) and if the last three years has taught us anything it’s that we will spend 5 years resisting and arguing all of the EU’s demands and preconditions before agreeing to them.

None of this will apply to NI who are likely to retain guaranteed rights including freedom of movement as part of the all Ireland border policy. And that will absolutely not cause any issues with other member nations of our Union. Absolutely not. Nope. Never. (Narrator: They did)

 

[blueinsa]

Labour lost an election based on those manifesto policies.

Nothing going to change then.

 

[blueinsa]

Rights are not just laws. Rights should be protected within a constitution that cannot be amended except via a super majority. If rights can be removed by simple majority legislation then they are not rights. Our rights under EU law can only be protected as long as we are members of the EU which is why right wing Tories want us out of the EU as like the right to Freedom of Movement these guaranteed rights can then be removed or reduced.

The same applies on the left with State Aid restrictions etc.

It is not a scare story to say that minimum workers rights currently guaranteed will no longer be guaranteed. That is factually correct. Whether these rights will or will not be removed or reduced remains to be seen but importantly they are now in play.

However any comprehensive trade deal with the EU will undoubtedly see some of these rights guaranteed as part of that agreement (which again is why ERG Tories are keen for a minimal deal as possible) and if the last three years has taught us anything it’s that we will spend 5 years resisting and arguing all of the EU’s demands and preconditions before agreeing to them.

None of this will apply to NI who are likely to retain guaranteed rights including freedom of movement as part of the all Ireland border policy. And that will absolutely not cause any issues with other member nations of our Union. Absolutely not. Nope. Never. (Narrator: They did)

You seen the deal Bob?

 

[BobKowalski]

You seen the deal Bob?

You mean the bit in the WA where they have removed the binding part about guaranteeing worker protections in line with the EU and put it in the non binding political declaration because to quote Dominic Raab ‘...we care so much about worker protections’ and Tories don’t want to be hindered in their desire to move to a four day week and a free unicorn for everyone at Christmas?

 

[adrianr]

Rights are not just laws. Rights should be protected within a constitution that cannot be amended except via a super majority. If rights can be removed by simple majority legislation then they are not rights. Our rights under EU law can only be protected as long as we are members of the EU which is why right wing Tories want us out of the EU as like the right to Freedom of Movement these guaranteed rights can then be removed or reduced.

The same applies on the left with State Aid restrictions etc.

It is not a scare story to say that minimum workers rights currently guaranteed will no longer be guaranteed. That is factually correct. Whether these rights will or will not be removed or reduced remains to be seen but importantly they are now in play.

However any comprehensive trade deal with the EU will undoubtedly see some of these rights guaranteed as part of that agreement (which again is why ERG Tories are keen for a minimal deal as possible) and if the last three years has taught us anything it’s that we will spend 5 years resisting and arguing all of the EU’s demands and preconditions before agreeing to them.

None of this will apply to NI who are likely to retain guaranteed rights including freedom of movement as part of the all Ireland border policy. And that will absolutely not cause any issues with other member nations of our Union. Absolutely not. Nope. Never. (Narrator: They did)

"In order to keep the UK competitive" will be the term to look out for...

 

[blueinsa]

You mean the bit in the WA where they have removed the binding part about guaranteeing worker protections in line with the EU and put it in the non binding political declaration because to quote Dominic Raab ‘...we care so much about worker protections’ and Tories don’t want to be hindered in their desire to move to a four day week and a free unicorn for everyone at Christmas?

Have you seen and read the deal because labour said they haven't despite telling us all what was wrong with it?