#47 | Phil Foden - 2019/20 Performances

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Phil's been patient for 2 years now & still nothing has changed. I don't blame Sancho for forcing his way out anymore. Pep is here to win titles & further his legacy, not develop young English talent. We just have to accept that.

This idea he'll just instantly replace Merlin like that when he can't even get real minutes during an injury crisis is also laughable. Pep can move Bernardo centrally & Mahrez/Sane out wide. He could sign any of Fabian, Odegaard, Aouar etc to replace David Silva too.

Thinking Foden will stroll into the Starting XI is very naive & delusional.
 
jimmygrimblesboots said:
Foden has to start against Atlanta , he needs minutes on the pitch , and a chance to prove to Pep that he has the attributes to play in this superb football team.
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Silva was superb yesterday and we’ve only just got de Bruyne and Bernardo back in the team and Mahrez will likely start on Tuesday after not featuring yesterday so I don’t see where Foden gets in this team.
 
Chrisdunk said:
Phil's been patient for 2 years now & still nothing has changed. I don't blame Sancho for forcing his way out anymore. Pep is here to win titles & further his legacy, not develop young English talent. We just have to accept that.

This idea he'll just instantly replace Merlin like that when he can't even get real minutes during an injury crisis is also laughable. Pep can move Bernardo centrally & Mahrez/Sane out wide. He could sign any of Fabian, Odegaard, Aouar etc to replace David Silva too.

Thinking Foden will stroll into the Starting XI is very naive & delusional.
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The simple fact is, if he was good enough he’d be playing.

We’ve got the best collection of midfielders in world football and Foden is bottom of the pecking order in that list.

Granted, the immobility of a David-Gundo-Rodri midfield should never be seen again after two horror shows from them as a trio against Norwich and Wolves, but even then I don’t think (and hope) we’re going to see de Bruyne and Bernardo out of the team again. So Foden just doesn’t get into this team.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
The simple fact is, if he was good enough he’d be playing.

We’ve got the best collection of midfielders in world football and Foden is bottom of the pecking order in that list.

Granted, the immobility of a David-Gundo-Rodri midfield should never be seen again after two horror shows from them as a trio against Norwich and Wolves, but even then I don’t think (and hope) we’re going to see de Bruyne and Bernardo out of the team again. So Foden just doesn’t get into this team.
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Right, so simple. All we need is for Phil to magically get better than the internationals ahead of him by...not playing? Everyone knows youth development doesn't work that way. Sometimes you take a short term hit to develop a player and make him as good as the others. And thats even putting aside the fact that Phil has looked every bit the part of a serviceable midfielder for us whenever he has actually played; he isn't a charity case.
 
cjn said:
Right, so simple. All we need is for Phil to magically get better than the internationals ahead of him by...not playing? Everyone knows youth development doesn't work that way. Sometimes you take a short term hit to develop a player and make him as good as the others. And thats even putting aside the fact that Phil has looked every bit the part of a serviceable midfielder for us whenever he has actually played; he isn't a charity case.
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That’s why he should be out on loan this season - if he wasn’t a local kid from Stockport who supports the club, him and his advisors would have demanded it. It’s glaringly obvious he’s kept around to distract from the fact that Pep’s needed to spend £600m on top of an inherited spine of Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling to deliver a few league titles. Miraculous.

Imagine if Rodgers would have opted to sign another forward instead of putting his faith in a baby Sterling at Liverpool - Raheem’s career would probably be very different at this point.

Ferguson could have just padded out his squad with signings instead of investing playing time in, and taking pride in the development of, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. For every Ferdinand he bought, there was a Wes Brown/Jonny Evans integrated. And our kids are significantly more talented than the majority of the ones he won titles with.

Chelsea and Leicester are currently in the top 4, playing fantastic football with academy kids supplementing the senior players - the notion that we can’t accommodate a few of our immensely talented young boys, plus 9 top quality seniors and still be competing, is nonsense.
 
cjn said:
Right, so simple. All we need is for Phil to magically get better than the internationals ahead of him by...not playing? Everyone knows youth development doesn't work that way. Sometimes you take a short term hit to develop a player and make him as good as the others. And thats even putting aside the fact that Phil has looked every bit the part of a serviceable midfielder for us whenever he has actually played; he isn't a charity case.
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He isn’t a charity case, and I agree that a loan might be ideal for him to build on his potential because playing is the best way to develop. But he’s not getting on our team for the foreseeable for me. I don’t think he’ll play on Tuesday, but he might against Southampton or the later CL games once we’ve qualified.

I can’t help but feel like we’ve overrated him a bit as a fanbase because he’s a local lad through our hopes and dreams for him to become our best hope for a true local talent since Paul Lake.

Against Rotherham last season, a relegated Championship side, he wasn’t really involved in the game which we won 7-0. He just blended in with the relegation quality Championship players they had and only had 38 touches.

He scored against Spurs in the Prem late last season - and I was beeming with pride for him - but again, after a few good passes and touches in the first half, he wasn’t really involved in the game a great deal.

That might be because of a lack of rhythm and game time (and fitness) but also might be because he’s lacking at the moment as a player.

While Foden isn’t a charity case, neither are City and if you look at every player in the squad on their merits as a squad number, you can’t just put someone in because it’ll be good for him. The manager and squad have a job to win every competition we enter. And Pep has thought even our POTS season from last season and only been worth around 50% of the total minutes of our game time this season (two of those games were after the Tweet saga, but he’s still only played 494 of 990)
 
... said:
That’s why he should be out on loan this season - if he wasn’t a local kid from Stockport who supports the club, him and his advisors would have demanded it. It’s glaringly obvious he’s kept around to distract from the fact that Pep’s needed to spend £600m on top of an inherited spine of Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling to deliver a few league titles. Miraculous.

Imagine if Rodgers would have opted to sign another forward instead of putting his faith in a baby Sterling at Liverpool - Raheem’s career would probably be very different at this point.

Ferguson could have just padded out his squad with signings instead of investing playing time in, and taking pride in the development of, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. For every Ferdinand he bought, there was a Wes Brown/Jonny Evans integrated. And our kids are significantly more talented than the majority of the ones he won titles with.

Chelsea and Leicester are currently in the top 4, playing fantastic football with academy kids supplementing the senior players - the notion that we can’t accommodate a few of our immensely talented young boys, plus 9 top quality seniors and still be competing, is nonsense.
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I'm not commenting on the spending stuff, but two things.

A loan is a good idea in theory, but in practice getting a kid a good, productive loan spell at a top level club where he actually gets consistent time is extremely hard to do. There is very little incentive for the loan club to invest in and develop loan players over taking the safe route and playing one of their own instead. it's something we see every single year, and is happening right now with Aro Muric and Patrick Roberts (if you still think he's good).

A better solution is ...just paying him. The best place for him to develop is here. He's ready, he just needs to play more. It's that simple. The notion that you can't compete at the top level and also bring through academy products just isn't true. When the academies at Barcelona, Madrid, Atleti, PSG, Bayern and Liverpool produce a gem, they bring them through. If we also have one of the best academies in the world, which we do, we should be able to also. This isn't a unique problem that we have.
 
His position is a position young lads don’t often get into top teams much as well. I said the same in the Jesus thread.

Full backs and wingers seem to get into teams at a younger age than centre halves, central midfielders, and centre forwards. This is true throughout many teams from many leagues through many decades.

Unless they’re better than what’s ahead of them, or ridiculously good players you can’t not take the chance on, these most trusted positions are almost always given to more experienced players.

How many young lads get into top teams in central midfield?

Owen Hargreaves at Bayern, started at 21 in the CL final against Valencia. Scholes at United. When they had good players ahead of them.

But who did Lampard displace at Chelsea, who did Gerrard displace at Liverpool? They weren’t trying to displace de Bruyne, David Silva, Bernardo Silva and Gundogan when they were breaking into the Chelsea and Liverpool teams.

We did need something different against Wolves but even Bernardo didn’t get the nod to start with de Bruyne injured so Foden would never have.
 
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... said:
That’s why he should be out on loan this season - if he wasn’t a local kid from Stockport who supports the club, him and his advisors would have demanded it. It’s glaringly obvious he’s kept around to distract from the fact that Pep’s needed to spend £600m on top of an inherited spine of Kompany, Fernandinho, Silva, De Bruyne, Aguero and Sterling to deliver a few league titles. Miraculous.

Imagine if Rodgers would have opted to sign another forward instead of putting his faith in a baby Sterling at Liverpool - Raheem’s career would probably be very different at this point.

Ferguson could have just padded out his squad with signings instead of investing playing time in, and taking pride in the development of, the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. For every Ferdinand he bought, there was a Wes Brown/Jonny Evans integrated. And our kids are significantly more talented than the majority of the ones he won titles with.

Chelsea and Leicester are currently in the top 4, playing fantastic football with academy kids supplementing the senior players - the notion that we can’t accommodate a few of our immensely talented young boys, plus 9 top quality seniors and still be competing, is nonsense.
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I've been on 5 mins and read 2 posts dissing pep,who d you support?
 
i would want a loan move if i was him. hes not playing at all. a few cup games - which is what he did last season. isn't enough now. hes too good to not be playing.
 
Regardless of whether he’s good enough or not (and for what it’s worth I think that if he was ever given a run of games he’d prove that he was) I’d love to know what Pep thinks he’s actually going to learn by coming on for one or two minutes at the end of a game.

People seem to think there’s a plan in place for his development, but I’m pretty sure that if Sane hadnt got injured then Foden wouldn’t have made any appearances at all so far in the Premier League.
 
Theres no doubt that if he was at Dortmund for example and starting games he would be like Sancho and his value would rocket.

Hes obviously got the talent just not the opportunity to start every game to get into a rhythm and show what he can do. Its too easy for him to him one game and have a poor one then people jump on him saying hes not ready. Everyone should be judged on a run in the team.
 
Tugay One Cup said:
That's not a fact, that's a massive oversimplification
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more fact than oversimplification
At the moment he is struggling to be a panel regular. I Would love to see him playing but assuming all panel being fit he would not make it at the moment. Hopefully he comes in as a straight replacement to David Silva. Our midfield is just full of top players
 
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