Another new Brexit thread

[wattle]

Remainers and leavers falling out all over the place. Shitty, arsey comments on here between blues. Everyone thinking they are an expert and are 100% right. Politicians on both sides only in it for themselves and don’t give a flying fuck about the country. In truth we don’t really know what’s going on or what would be best. It’s all about selfish winning or losing of arguments. Thanks government. We’re a mess and a laughing stock whatever the final result. I was a definite remainer but I really don’t give a shit anymore.

 

[blueparrot]

The trouble we’re going to have is that the opposition will reject any Brexit deal the Tories come up with.

Every Brexit deal is going to make us worse off but a FTA, or the opportunity to agree one once the WA has been passed, has to be accepted now.

I think Corbyn knows he’s political screwed if he votes for the deal but the fact is, he could be screwed if he continues to try and block it.

The vote should have taken place on Saturday, it’s embarrassing that it didn’t.

Trouble with that is I can't see any FTA without some form of CU , so getting a CU tacked onto it now would make future negotiations on trade deals so much smoother.

 

[George Hannah]

The trouble we’re going to have is that the opposition will reject any Brexit deal the Tories come up with.

Every Brexit deal is going to make us worse off but a FTA, or the opportunity to agree one once the WA has been passed, has to be accepted now.

I think Corbyn knows he’s political screwed if he votes for the deal but the fact is, he could be screwed if he continues to try and block it.

The vote should have taken place on Saturday, it’s embarrassing that it didn’t.

I think the consensus is that it was either passed or defeated on the nod and today is either Meaningful Monday or the start of 'hell on earth' in Parliament.

 

[M18CTID]

So is the vote happening today or what? I lost a lot of interest when "Super Saturday" turned out to be a damp squib

 

[inbetween]

The trouble we’re going to have is that the opposition will reject any Brexit deal the Tories come up with.

Every Brexit deal is going to make us worse off but a FTA, or the opportunity to agree one once the WA has been passed, has to be accepted now.

I think Corbyn knows he’s political screwed if he votes for the deal but the fact is, he could be screwed if he continues to try and block it.

The vote should have taken place on Saturday, it’s embarrassing that it didn’t.

Can you imagine if somehow this shower got into power and we had a referendum and the deal was voted through?

What in gods name would Corbyn negotiate in trade talks?

Would he threaten no deal on the basis that the EU remove its state aid rules.....?

 

[Metal Biker]

So is the vote happening today or what? I lost a lot of interest when "Super Saturday" turned out to be a damp squib

Morbid Monday, followed by Torrid Tuesday culminating on Wankers Wednesday.

I don't think anyone has a scooby what Parliament is planning to be fair.

 

[blueparrot]

So is the vote happening today or what? I lost a lot of interest when "Super Saturday" turned out to be a damp squib

Doubtful, according to this.
https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-a-delay-could-get-boris-johnson-the-election-he-craves-11840965

 

[Ban-jani]

So are we voting today or tomorrow on it?

 

[Chippy_boy]

Whenever I hear this about worker's rights, I have a vision of the Tories sending us all up chimneys for 18 hours a day, every day.

I wouldn't mind but the current legislation doesn't stop unscrupulous cunts like that fat bastard Mike Ashley from treating his staff like shit. In any case, if the government really does go ahead and piss all over worker's rights to the extent that some are predicting, they'll know about it at the next General Election.

Agreed. But I will also say this, what about employers' rights? All everyone talks about is workers' rights as if it's a one way street and anything we do which improves a worker's lot is necessarily good, and anything which takes away from it is necessarily bad.

But there are two sides to every coin. In some other countries it's virtually impossible to get rid of someone who turns out to be a complete tosser. In others, it's much more difficult to make people redundant. And guess what, such countries usually have much higher unemployment than we do, because employers are far less inclined to hire someone in the first place.

I am not suggesting erosion of workers' rights is a good thing, far from it. But there has to be a balance and this is never mentioned.

 

[Blue Hefner]

Remainers and leavers falling out all over the place. Shitty, arsey comments on here between blues. Everyone thinking they are an expert and are 100% right. Politicians on both sides only in it for themselves and don’t give a flying fuck about the country. In truth we don’t really know what’s going on or what would be best. It’s all about selfish winning or losing of arguments. Thanks government. We’re a mess and a laughing stock whatever the final result. I was a definite remainer but I really don’t give a shit anymore.

The Government think this 'deal' will harm the economy to the tune of 4-6%. But they want to do it anyway and also want the Opposition Party to vote for it - I cannot think of any other Government policy which their own forecast suggested an economic hit that said Government would go through with it anyway, never-mind the Opposition being criticized for not voting for it

 

[FlemishDuck]

It’s all about selfish winning or losing of arguments.

That doesn't even have so much to do with Brexit. It's just that if you look at the average forum poppulation and behaviour there are a few distinctive mindsets that guide behaviour in discussion and there is a fairly hard clash here between the "partisan debaters" and the "hard core scrutinisers". All this though can be completly placed within the field of social/forum behaviour.

Very briefly explained:
-the "Partisan debaters"* are the type who champion a side of a view and believe that in argumentation wins and losses must almost be seen as points won during a match. This often observingly translates in stubborn and even haughty behaviour by some posters while to the other side their views often blatantly do not hold up to scrutiny.
-The "hard core scrutinisers"* do not perceive that a argument is a match between who's views are superior for points. Hard core scrutinisers do not put that much value in how much knowledge one holds at any point, rather they foremost believe a person must be primarily critical and self observing for the function of independantly being able to find truth. In that sense there is no shame to asking questions for the function of scrutiny whereas for a partisan debater asking such questions might appear as showing weakness.

Get the "team mentallity" out of the debate, and let everybody hold himself to propper scrutiny and the scientific method to finding truth, then this issue wouldn't exist even if people held different oppinions. The problem is not that we are devided in views, the problem is that there is a conflict between the "standards of truth", withought that issue we would simply be split along lines of complexity.

*(source: dictionary of the quackish people)

 

[Saddleworth2]

The trouble we’re going to have is that the opposition will reject any Brexit deal the Tories come up with.

Every Brexit deal is going to make us worse off but a FTA, or the opportunity to agree one once the WA has been passed, has to be accepted now.

I think Corbyn knows he’s political screwed if he votes for the deal but the fact is, he could be screwed if he continues to try and block it.

The vote should have taken place on Saturday, it’s embarrassing that it didn’t.

It didn't because Johnson pulled it. I wonder why? He and his camp are now saying/lying that they 'have the numbers' so we shall see how it pans out this week. He seems to be a little desperate to stop his deal getting the proper scrutiny though. Goodness knows why that would be.

 

[BobKowalski]

⁦Poor bastards. We should really let people know that this shit is a decade long process.

Populus Polls⁩ “crucial misunderstanding among voters, assume ‘deal’ covers terms leaving EU & details trading relationship”. When focus groups r told #Brexit triggers longer phase of talks & trade negotiations, response is often “horrified silence”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/316b2a42-f354-11e9-afe0-18e11653b68e

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

⁦Poor bastards. We should really let people know that this shit is a decade long process.

Populus Polls⁩ “crucial misunderstanding among voters, assume ‘deal’ covers terms leaving EU & details trading relationship”. When focus groups r told #Brexit triggers longer phase of talks & trade negotiations, response is often “horrified silence”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/316b2a42-f354-11e9-afe0-18e11653b68e

Yeah better to give them another referendum eh bob on something they don’t understand ?

 

[TheBlueDune]

Why is this being peddled by the opposition? Why will the PM or Govt consider destroying worker's rights? I just don't see it happening....

Because in the name of being globally competitive we'll be hoodwinked into reducing "restrictive practices" that make it too expensive/complicated/difficult to do business with UK.

Turn to the US and see how the lack of holidays, sick pay, employment rights, etc. can mean you can be in a job for 20 years then fired at the end of the week without a payoff. The corporations can close businesses and factories at the drop of a hat, killing communities without compassion.

Boris and crew will be peddling the level playing field spin - down to the lowest level, not aspiring to the top.

Do you think they give a toss about the working class?

 

[BobKowalski]

Yeah better to give them another referendum eh bob on something they don’t understand ?

Well given they don’t understand that passing the Withdrawal Agreement doesn’t ‘get Brexit done’ I think we can boil the question choice down to two understandable options

1. Do you want this interminable shit to carry on for a decade?

2.Do you want to never hear the fucking word ‘Brexit’ ever again?

The swearing is optional.

 

[Bluemanc100]

Because in the name of being globally competitive we'll be hoodwinked into reducing "restrictive practices" that make it too expensive/complicated/difficult to do business with UK.

Turn to the US and see how the lack of holidays, sick pay, employment rights, etc. can mean you can be in a job for 20 years then fired at the end of the week without a payoff. The corporations can close businesses and factories at the drop of a hat, killing communities without compassion.

Boris and crew will be peddling the level playing field spin - down to the lowest level, not aspiring to the top.

Do you think they give a toss about the working class?

all assumptions.......... but easily remedied I agree if they set the standard formally

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Well given they don’t understand that passing the Withdrawal Agreement doesn’t ‘get Brexit done’ I think we can boil the question choice down to two understandable options

1. Do you want this interminable shit to carry on for a decade?

2.Do you want to never hear the fucking word ‘Brexit’ ever again?

The swearing is optional.

2 might just get through I think

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

2 might just get through I think

Brexit means Fucking Brexit.

 

[bluejon]

⁦Poor bastards. We should really let people know that this shit is a decade long process.

Populus Polls⁩ “crucial misunderstanding among voters, assume ‘deal’ covers terms leaving EU & details trading relationship”. When focus groups r told #Brexit triggers longer phase of talks & trade negotiations, response is often “horrified silence”

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/316b2a42-f354-11e9-afe0-18e11653b68e

Anyone wanting it 'just to be over' should be desperate for a remain vote in a second referendum, but then of course that would mean they are also 'against democracy' and traitorous.