Another new Brexit thread

[Blue Hefner]

Well worth a listen

 

[Chippy_boy]

We can try and bind ourselves but we cannot bind the EU. If Labour get parity for workers rights in the Treaty then to reduce them requires both parties, the UK and EU, to agree. Which is why the Tories don’t want these rights in the Treaty. This is also why scrutiny and debate are crucial.

Scrutiny and debate is fine, so long as the outcome is that everyone agrees that the position the Tories have negotiated is absolutely the correct one.

How on earth can anyone argue that deliberately, unilaterally and unnecessarily signing away our rights such that only with the agreement of a third party can we change them, is in any way consistent with us "taking back control"??? It would be bad enough if the EU were demanding it, and we should say no. That they are not and we are seeking to bind ourselves, is the most ridiculous idea. Johnson doubtless took these provisions out of the WA for this exact reason.

We may have absolutely no intention whatsoever of doing anything detrimental to workers' rights, but it would still be ludicrous to put our own democratic control of such, out of the jurisdiction of our own parliament. What on earth is the point of leaving to take back control of our own laws, only to hand control over to someone else? It's a nonsense.

 

[aguero93:20]

He’ll have a majority and won’t need the ERG I don’t think.

Maybe. That was May's plan when she called the snap election I reckon. He would probably do better in an election post WA being passed rather than prior, but he's still done the one thing Cummings was wary of and put forward a specific form of Brexit for the opposition to pick holes in on the campaign trail.

 

[Chippy_boy]

He’s a complete tosser on many levels but he’s all about making a name for himself and getting the top job, which he’s got now.

He’ll want his name and legacy to not be of total and utter disaster. Brexit was his only chance of getting the top job and his reputation has quite rightly been damaged, well for half the country, he won’t want to continue to damage it when a deal is there to be done.

I totally agree with you. Which is why this silly idea that he's been hell bent on no deal, is so absolutely ridiculous.

 

[west didsblue]

Sure, he took his £89k a year MP job to line his back pocket, rather than the £2m a year he'd have invariably been able to get on some company board or other. Damned cunning these Tories.

I wasn't talking about his salary.

 

[George Hannah]

Are you asking @Didsbury Dave out on a date?

The prospect would be intriguing, the learning experience is a changing experience, who knows what may result. You certainly seem to have enjoyed his company.

 

[Ban-jani]

Maybe. That was May's plan when she called the snap election I reckon. He would probably do better in an election post WA being passed rather than prior, but he's still done the one thing Cummings was wary of and put forward a specific form of Brexit for the opposition to pick holes in on the campaign trail.

Will that Brexit plan’s details be at the forefront of 50% of the populations focus?

They see him as an avenue to get out and that’s it.

May’s campaign was genuinely the worst in the history of UK politics. It could have only gone worse if she threatened Trident on England.

 

[blueinsa]

Not lies. Just failed delivery.

Rather a one eyed, biased and embarrassed view of it on your part Vic but no surprises.

 

[M18CTID]

Sure, he took his £89k a year MP job to line his back pocket, rather than the £2m a year he'd have invariably been able to get on some company board or other. Damned cunning these Tories.

Someone at the Bluemoon meet-up back in September for Vinny's testimonial said he knows Johnson from some years back, and whatever people think of him as a politician/PM, he's actually a very clever bloke when it comes to a particular field which I think, from memory, was something like nucleur physics. I'm pretty sure a job like that would pay a lot more than 89K a year!

 

[Ban-jani]

I totally agree with you. Which is why this silly idea that he's been hell bent on no deal, is so absolutely ridiculous.

Of course it is.

He’s desperate for this deal to pass and for a FTA.

 

[aguero93:20]

Will that Brexit plan’s details be at the forefront of 50% of the populations focus?

They see him as an avenue to get out and that’s it.

May’s campaign was genuinely the worst in the history of UK politics. It could have only gone worse if she threatened Trident on England.

They don't need to attack the details, just the specific downsides.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think their significance is inflated by their blatant exploitation of Parliament as a media platform. When one stands up at PMQs the others are like a pack of performing seals smacking their flippers and emitting incomprehensible honks. Outside the TV set pieces they are conspicuously absent - most probably guzzling whiskey soaked porridge and snorting coke.

I can think of worse ways to spend a day...

 

[M18CTID]

Of course it is.

He’s desperate for this deal to pass and for a FTA.

Somebody should tell @dave_blue12 then. I've tried to but he won't listen and is obsessed with the idea that Johnson is after crashing out without a deal

 

[blueinsa]

Somebody should tell @dave_blue12 then. I've tried to but he won't listen and is obsessed with the idea that Johnson is after crashing out without a deal

His twitter feed told him so that's why.

 

[adrianr]

I can think of worse ways to spend a day...

Absolutely. Throw in some hookers and I'll be your next MP.

 

[Ban-jani]

Someone at the Bluemoon meet-up back in September for Vinny's testimonial said he knows Johnson from some years back, and whatever people think of him as a politician/PM, he's actually a very clever bloke when it comes to a particular field which I think, from memory, was something like nucleur physics. I'm pretty sure a job like that would pay a lot more than 89K a year!

He’s a very smart bloke. People who can’t look past his bumbling nature and persona are the morons.

He’s also a proper **** though but a smart one.

 

[Ban-jani]

They don't need to attack the details, just the specific downsides.

You’re think more of the British public than I do, mate.

 

[aguero93:20]

You’re think more of the British public than I do, mate.

I'm looking at a deal that barely got over 50% support in polls before anyone had a chance to pick it apart.

 

[Vic]

I've no idea what you're on about Vic. You're not dim, so you understand what lie means. It does not mean saying something you believe to be true and subsequently failing to deliver it. You know that, so stop pissing about wasting everyone's time with nonsense.

So the only lie of the referendum campaign was that "even if we leave we will still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border"? Everything else was just failed delivery?

For the sake of clarity, I could believe Farage was not lying when he said we could be like Norway and Johnson meant it when he said “I think we can strike a deal as the Canadians have done based on trade and getting rid of tariffs. It’s a very, very bright future I see". But that FTZ was presented as an automatic default position if we left.

But definition? There's a thin line between "that's not true" and "that's a lie". On this thread if you say the first you may well get the response "are you calling me a liar?"

Bottom line? Johnson is careless with the truth. Very careless. The British Trump - actually no, that was just a lie by his American model.

 

[BobKowalski]

...

...We may have absolutely no intention whatsoever of doing anything detrimental to workers' rights, but it would still be ludicrous to put our own democratic control of such, out of the jurisdiction of our own parliament. What on earth is the point of leaving to take back control of our own laws, only to hand control over to someone else? It's a nonsense.

Handing over control is precisely what will happen during the years of status quo/transition and depending on what future trade deal we do negotiate there could be several years of an actual ‘implementation period’. The length of this though will depend on exactly how close a relationship we negotiate and whilst that will depend on who is in power over the next five to ten years it will largely be dictated by trade gravity and the need to fit into the EU economic zone especially on Services. It will also be dictated by NI as the only back for them would be through close regulatory alignment etc.

To be honest all I can see is years of uncertainty for the UK, it’s people and businesses and at the end if it we will be pretty much where we are now.