Another new Brexit thread

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meltonblue said:
Yeah, like I said, it's all relative but I don't agree that he is intelligent. At what exactly do you think he is? Unless you are saying social intelligence, which I'd agree he is (although I think he uses it for the wrong reasons though!)
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One thing I always think when people say that Theresa May, Boris Johnson, even Diane Abbott are thick is, if they were in the room with you and I... and the rest of this forum or with random people, they’d absolutely own the room.

It’s like when our CEO visits and she just has everyone right where she wants them, is able to take you to pieces if you bullshit her and just generally comes across as a higher intelligence to the whole room.

I think politicians, even those people don’t think much of, would be the same if not more.

Possibly not Dominic Raab though ;-)
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've no idea how you can honestly say Brexit is about us ceding control to the EU. That really is a difficult statement to justify. One way or another we will have some more control than we have now. We can debate how much exactly, but it will be some more.
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Are we right now waiting to hear back from the EU the extension terms or indeed whether there is an extension? Will we be subject to EU laws and regs for a minimum of three years without a say in how they are formulated? Have we agreed that in NI the economic policy of the EU and not the UK will apply?

I’m not talking about what is likely to happen when we finally sit down and discuss the future relationship and what concessions we will or will not make but objective reality about what is happening now and we have agreed to accept in the future.

What bit of anything that is happening now or we have agreed to accept in the future is in any way shape or form ‘more control’?
 
BobKowalski said:
Are we right now waiting to hear back from the EU the extension terms or indeed whether there is an extension? Will we be subject to EU laws and regs for a minimum of three years without a say in how they are formulated? Have we agreed that in NI the economic policy of the EU and not the UK will apply?

I’m not talking about what is likely to happen when we finally sit down and discuss the future relationship and what concessions we will or will not make but objective reality about what is happening now and we have agreed to accept in the future.

What bit of anything that is happening now or we have agreed to accept in the future is in any way shape or form ‘more control’?
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We're still in the EU.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Apart from the above being nonsense, you're also assuming letting John McDonnell into no. 11 (he of the 2008 crash - "I've been waiting all my life for this") would not plunge the country into turmoil.
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To quote the current Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer ‘decisions are no longer governed solely by financial considerations’. The economic impact of electing Corbyn is by the Tory Party’s own admission not a factor.

In short you can’t point out that electing Corbyn will melt the economy when you have already covered it in petrol and are about to light the match. Why should people listen?
 
BobKowalski said:
Nah it’s just a flesh wound :)

Johnson can win back the bulk of Brexit Party support especially with his tough, do or die, leave on the 31st October approach. But defending a deal that the the Brexit Party is starting to dig into and saying ‘this isn’t Brexit anymore than May’s deal was Brexit’ will start to have an effect come a GE campaign. I don’t expect BP to win seats necessarily but I can see a 12 to 15% hardcore Brexit vote that will not be persuaded by a deal. Still means Johnson can get the Tory vote into the thirties but whether that’s enough for a majority I don’t know. Depends where that vote is and if it can translate into winning enough seats to compensate for losses in Scotland or even SW England.
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The tabloids are uniting behind Johnson, well apart from the Mirror obvs. The rhetoric is “he’s done his duty” etc. etc. and I genuinely think he’ll secure 40% of the electorate purely based on Brexit.
 
BobKowalski said:
To quote the current Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer ‘decisions are no longer governed solely by financial considerations’. The economic impact of electing Corbyn is by the Tory Party’s own admission not a factor.

In short you can’t point out that electing Corbyn will melt the economy when you have already covered it in petrol and are about to light the match. Why should people listen?
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I don't need to point out anything and I don't care whether people listen or not. In my estimation Corbyn in power would be devastating for this country in any circumstances. He could turn "OK" into terrible and make "terrible" even more terrible. His policies are all misguided or just plain wrong and without too many exceptions would be very damaging indeed. That's my view.
 
Chippy_boy said:
We're still in the EU.
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No. We won’t. Once the deal is passed we will not be in the EU. But our trade policy will be governed by the EU. And for NI that is likely to be permanent.

We will be in the EU Single Market and still be in the CU and will be for years. We will have to adopt EU laws, regs and standards with no say in their formulation. That is the reality of transition.
 
Ban-jani said:
The tabloids are uniting behind Johnson, well apart from the Mirror obvs. The rhetoric is “he’s done his duty” etc. etc. and I genuinely think he’ll secure 40% of the electorate purely based on Brexit.
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The tabloids and other media still won't be able to resist giving Farage as much publicity as possible though.
 
aguero93:20 said:
The tabloids and other media still won't be able to resist giving Farage as much publicity as possible though.
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The BBC will but the Mail, Express, Sun etc. have their man now and they’ll make sure he gets a majority.

Blair knew this in 1997 and did the deal with the devil.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I've no idea how you can honestly say Brexit is about us ceding control to the EU. That really is a difficult statement to justify. One way or another we will have some more control than we have now. We can debate how much exactly, but it will be some more.
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Yes, we will bestride the economic and political world like a colossus.

In the real world, the rest of the world now looks at us with barely concealed pity. That a once great nation should conduct self harm of this magnitude. More control? We will spend the next 10 years signing trade deals that are worse than what we have just now and trying to deal with an imploding United Kingdom. All that additional control we have taken back will be well worth it.
 
Chippy_boy said:
I think they've let Corbyn off lightly there.

Should have said "But Labour blocked it again".
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Except it’s a lie. If the deal had really passed Labour by definition couldn’t have blocked it. The deal was never passed to begin with. Lies aren’t going to get us out of this mess. The’re the reason we are in it.
 
Ban-jani said:
The BBC will but the Mail, Express, Sun etc. have their man now and they’ll make sure he gets a majority.

Blair knew this in 1997 and did the deal with the devil.
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They'll still go to Farage as he's ready made copy, watch and see.
 
BobKowalski said:
No. We won’t. Once the deal is passed we will not be in the EU. But our trade policy will be governed by the EU. And for NI that is likely to be permanent.

We will be in the EU Single Market and still be in the CU and will be for years. We will have to adopt EU laws, regs and standards with no say in their formulation. That is the reality of transition.
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I said we are still in the EU.

And you say "of transition". Transition will not last forever.
 
BobKowalski said:
To quote the current Tory Chancellor of the Exchequer ‘decisions are no longer governed solely by financial considerations’. The economic impact of electing Corbyn is by the Tory Party’s own admission not a factor.

In short you can’t point out that electing Corbyn will melt the economy when you have already covered it in petrol and are about to light the match. Why should people listen?
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Because the Sun and the Mail will tell them what to think every single hour in every single day.
 
BobKowalski said:
Except it’s a lie. If the deal had really passed Labour by definition couldn’t have blocked it. The deal was never passed to begin with. Lies aren’t going to get us out of this mess. The’re the reason we are in it.
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Leaving is the only thing that will get us out of this mess now. The sooner you get your head around that, the better IMO.
 
aguero93:20 said:
They'll still go to Farage as he's ready made copy, watch and see.
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I will be, don’t worry.

In a perverse way, I’m looking forward to a GE. I love politics and despite the worry with he situation and the frustration of lack of progression, this period is still immensely interesting if politics is your thing.
 
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