Another new Brexit thread

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Chippy_boy said:
For the umpteenth time, it is NOT a lie to say something unless you know it to be untrue. And I don't doubt for one moment that he had every intention of delivering Brexit by end of October (do you???), so I am 100% sure he did not know it to be untrue. So it was not a lie. It may have been foolish to over promise (I don't think it was) but it was not a lie.

Second, are we REALLY so petty minded as to accuse someone of lying about saying "I'd rather be dead in a ditch". Is the expression "Over my dead body" in future only to mean that someone is LITERALLY prepared to kill themselves before XYZ event happens. REALLY? That is SUCH a lame criticism, it really is. It was a figure of speech expressing his firm commitment in the strongest possible terms. Nothing more, nothing less. Picking him up on that is playground stuff.

Finally, how on EARTH can someone criticise Johnson for sending the begging letter to the EU, when those doing the criticizing, supported the action FORCING him to send it??? What a ludicrous position to take.

Seriously, I think there's enough people in the public who are not so dim as to see what's going on here. Johnson enemies trying to throw every bit of shite at him they possibly can. That's all fine and well, but when the shite is so unjustifiable and unreasonable, people see it for what it is: shit-stirring, and nothing more than that. And it backfires on the shit-stirrers. The polls would seem to indicate that is exactly how the public view this. If you are going to have some criticism of Johnson, make it genuine rather than the sanctimonious, hypocritical and downright silly rubbish being thrown at the moment.
Click to expand...


DAILY MAIL READER ALERT!!!!
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
DAILY MAIL READER ALERT!!!!
Click to expand...
It's funny how sensible and reasoned posts which highlight the weakness in an opponents argument, solicit this sort of response. Tell you what, why don't you break the mould and have a go at answering the points I raised?

  • For example do you think Johnson knew we would not be leaving on October 31st when he set out his stall back in July (or was it June, I forget)?
  • Do you think criticising someone for saying they'd rather be dead in a ditch, and then not killing themselves and lying in a ditch, is a mature and sensible criticism?
  • And likewise, do you think it's fair to criticise someone for not doing something, which you stopped them from doing???

Why not have a go at answering these specific questions, without either (a) saying OK fair enough, you have a point or (b) making a complete tit of yourself. Again.
 
Chippy_boy said:
It's funny how sensible and reasoned posts which highlight the weakness in an opponents argument, solicit this sort of response. Tell you what, why don't you break the mould and have a go at answering the points I raised?

  • For example do you think Johnson knew we would not be leaving on October 31st when he set out his stall back in July (or was it June, I forget)?
  • Do you think criticising someone for saying they'd rather be dead in a ditch, and then not killing themselves and lying in a ditch, is a mature and sensible criticism?
  • And likewise, do you think it's fair to criticise someone for not doing something, which you stopped them from doing???

Why not have a go at answering these specific questions, without either (a) saying OK fair enough, you have a point or (b) making a complete tit of yourself. Again.
Click to expand...

Point 1

It was 25th July in the HOC

it was also repeated on the 5 sept at the disastrous Press conference in front of the police where he 'promised' to recruit 20000 new officers after his party had sacked 21000

It was then repeated in the House of Commons on 25th Sept

And again on the 30th Sept on the Andrew Marr show.

And yet again on the 2nd October at the party Conference

And those are the ones I can remember .... Looks like he failed to do a 'reality check' during the entire process.... no learning curve

Point2

I honestly think the Conservatives have got the 'leader' ... (I use the word loosely) that they deserve

Point 3

Johnson could have passed the bill into the second reading (HOC passed it after all) had he allowed proper debate and scrutiny .... Labour DID NOT OPPOSE the WAB ... they and many others in the HOC just wanted a reasonable time to do so.

Tories seem to be deadline driven for passage of this bill .... surely you should be asking yourself why ?


(the answer is the Requirement to implement the EU directive on tax avoidance )
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
Point 1

It was 25th July in the HOC

it was also repeated on the 5 sept at the disastrous Press conference in front of the police where he 'promised' to recruit 20000 new officers after his party had sacked 21000

It was then repeated in the House of Commons on 25th Sept

And again on the 30th Sept on the Andrew Marr show.

And yet again on the 2nd October at the party Conference

And those are the ones I can remember .... Looks like he failed to do a 'reality check' during the entire process.... no learning curve

Point2

I honestly think the Conservatives have got the 'leader' ... (I use the word loosely) that they deserve

Point 3

Johnson could have passed the bill into the second reading (HOC passed it after all) had he allowed proper debate and scrutiny .... Labour DID NOT OPPOSE the WAB ... they and many others in the HOC just wanted a reasonable time to do so.

Tories seem to be deadline driven for passage of this bill .... surely you should be asking yourself why ?


(the answer is the Requirement to implement the EU directive on tax avoidance )
Click to expand...

Point 1. What is your point?
Point 2. I note your lack of answer
Point 3. BWWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA Of course it was all to do with tax avoidance. Just like Jeremy not supporting a GE is all about making sure we stop a no deal Brexit. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You lot are priceless, you really are.
 
Chippy_boy said:
For the umpteenth time, it is NOT a lie to say something unless you know it to be untrue. And I don't doubt for one moment that he had every intention of delivering Brexit by end of October (do you???), so I am 100% sure he did not know it to be untrue. So it was not a lie. It may have been foolish to over promise (I don't think it was) but it was not a lie.

Second, are we REALLY so petty minded as to accuse someone of lying about saying "I'd rather be dead in a ditch". Is the expression "Over my dead body" in future only to mean that someone is LITERALLY prepared to kill themselves before XYZ event happens. REALLY? That is SUCH a lame criticism, it really is. It was a figure of speech expressing his firm commitment in the strongest possible terms. Nothing more, nothing less. Picking him up on that is playground stuff.

Finally, how on EARTH can someone criticise Johnson for sending the begging letter to the EU, when those doing the criticizing, supported the action FORCING him to send it??? What a ludicrous position to take.

Seriously, I think there's enough people in the public who are not so dim as to see what's going on here. Johnson enemies trying to throw every bit of shite at him they possibly can. That's all fine and well, but when the shite is so unjustifiable and unreasonable, people see it for what it is: shit-stirring, and nothing more than that. And it backfires on the shit-stirrers. The polls would seem to indicate that is exactly how the public view this. If you are going to have some criticism of Johnson, make it genuine rather than the sanctimonious, hypocritical and downright silly rubbish being thrown at the moment.
Click to expand...
And for the umpteenth time, promising an absolute outcome where there is only a small chance of delivering it is a lie. Rock on with your love for the man but don’t be surprised that many of us see him for exactly what he is. Liar Johnson.
 
Chippy_boy said:
Point 1. What is your point?
Point 2. I note your lack of answer
Point 3. BWWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAA Of course it was all to do with tax avoidance. Just like Jeremy not supporting a GE is all about making sure we stop a no deal Brexit. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

You lot are priceless, you really are.
Click to expand...


And in one post you've shown the disdain you hold for remainers... this is the problem ..... theres no compromise with Leavers ,,, the 52% who voted leave dont give a flying flamingo abbout the 48% who voted remain or the rest that failed to vote... people that want to remain are quite happy to accept a compromise that does not damage the economy / Health / Wealth and standard of living.....


For some claptrap ideology .... leavers will accept anything ... whatever happened to the 'Sunny Uplands'
 
Saddleworth2 said:
And for the umpteenth time, promising an absolute outcome where there is only a small chance of delivering it is a lie. Rock on with your love for the man but don’t be surprised that many of us see him for exactly what he is. Liar Johnson.
Click to expand...

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. And tediously dull.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
And in one post you've shown the disdain you hold for remainers... this is the problem ..... theres no compromise with Leavers ,,, the 52% who voted leave dont give a flying flamingo abbout the 48% who voted remain or the rest that failed to vote... people that want to remain are quite happy to accept a compromise that does not damage the economy / Health / Wealth and standard of living.....


For some claptrap ideology .... leavers will accept anything ... whatever happened to the 'Sunny Uplands'
Click to expand...
I am a Remainer FFS! I voted Remain but just want this shit to go away.
 
Regards this "take no deal off the table" bullshit from the wizened old bullshitter:

Can people not see what an utterly ridiculous request / suggestion that is? Let's put aside for one moment that the next Parliament will have a different disposition of MPs which will make up their own minds on what to accept / not accept. We'll park that enormous fly in his made up ointment for one moment.

But at the end of the transition period, the UK will be faced with 3 options. There are only 3 and can never be more than 3.

1. Accept the negotiated deal
2. Say sorry we can't accept the deal, but we don't want to leave without one so let's negotiate ANOTHER delay and try again.
3. Reject the negotiated deal and say sorry, we're off with no deal and WTO terms

Those are the ONLY options.

Corbyn would have us unilaterally remove option 3. Can people not see how utterly bonkers that is??? How on earth, do we expect to get a favourable outcome from an EU which does not want us to leave, if the EU knows that our only options are to accept whatever shitty deal they offer, or to stay in? Can anyone explain to me how that can possibly work, and how that can in any way be a good idea???

I am in sales and negotiate contracts with clients all the time. That's my job. How on earth would i maximise the revenue for my company if my opening line with procurement was "Let me just start by saying I do not have a walk away position, and i will accept any price you care to name"?

It is a total joke. The only people espousing this as a strategy can only be thick as pig shit, or have ulterior motives, like us never leaving at all.
 
Chippy_boy said:
It's funny how sensible and reasoned posts which highlight the weakness in an opponents argument, solicit this sort of response. Tell you what, why don't you break the mould and have a go at answering the points I raised?

  • For example do you think Johnson knew we would not be leaving on October 31st when he set out his stall back in July (or was it June, I forget)?
  • Do you think criticising someone for saying they'd rather be dead in a ditch, and then not killing themselves and lying in a ditch, is a mature and sensible criticism?
  • And likewise, do you think it's fair to criticise someone for not doing something, which you stopped them from doing???

Why not have a go at answering these specific questions, without either (a) saying OK fair enough, you have a point or (b) making a complete tit of yourself. Again.
Click to expand...
1) he knew that the most likely outcome was we would not leave. Any rational and objective view of the circumstances would tell him that. Mays deal was in the long grass, the EU had said no negotiations and the HoC had made it clear that there would be no no deal. Against this background, unlike his rivals, he made an absolute promise, with no ifs buts or maybes. He did it because it plays well with the public and he can use his usual blame strategy when things inevitably fall apart.
2) it’s you that’s majoring on this. No one else is. It’s not the kind of language a Prime Minister should you use when there was little chance that he would deliver his promise. The language again is to win hearts and minds, nothing else.
3) when Pep is asked if we will win, does he say yes, of course, I will die in a ditch if we don’t. No, he says we will try our best and we will see. He does that because we have opponents who’s purpose is to also win. Now when Liar Johnson stated he would never write a letter to ask for an extension, did he not think for a second that his opponents would be planning for him to do exactly that. Of course he did, he still said it though comfortable in the knowledge that when he inevitably had to write such a letter, he could blame others and fools all over the country would suck it in.

The man is a clever Machiavellian Liar.
Promise
Break promise
Blame others
And repeat
 
Saddleworth2 said:
1) he knew that the most likely outcome was we would not leave. Any rational and objective view of the circumstances would tell him that. Mays deal was in the long grass, the EU had said no negotiations and the HoC had made it clear that there would be no no deal. Against this background, unlike his rivals, he made an absolute promise, with no ifs buts or maybes. He did it because it plays well with the public and he can use his usual blame strategy when things inevitably fall apart.
2) it’s you that’s majoring on this. No one else is. It’s not the kind of language a Prime Minister should you use when there was little chance that he would deliver his promise. The language again is to win hearts and minds, nothing else.
3) when Pep is asked if we will win, does he say yes, of course, I will die in a ditch if we don’t. No, he says we will try our best and we will see. He does that because we have opponents who’s purpose is to also win. Now when Liar Johnson stated he would never write a letter to ask for an extension, did he not think for a second that his opponents would be planning for him to do exactly that. Of course he did, he still said it though comfortable in the knowledge that when he inevitably had to write such a letter, he could blame others and fools all over the country would suck it in.

The man is a clever Machiavellian Liar.
Promise
Break promise
Blame others
And repeat
Click to expand...

I've read and deeply reflected on your reply and my considered comments are,

1. Rubbish
2. Rubbish
3. Rubbish
 
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