Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
Never leaving at all sounds excellent.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
Another new Brexit thread
- Thread starter Ric
- Start date
- Status
- Not open for further replies.
purplenose
Well-Known Member
I really dislike macron.
Yes I get that....I would love to take a penalty type run up and kick him in the straight in the bollocks.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Well dine out on that, because the sound of it is all you're getting.Never leaving at all sounds excellent.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
Regards this "take no deal off the table" bullshit from the wizened old bullshitter:
Can people not see what an utterly ridiculous request / suggestion that is? Let's put aside for one moment that the next Parliament will have a different disposition of MPs which will make up their own minds on what to accept / not accept. We'll park that enormous fly in his made up ointment for one moment.
But at the end of the transition period, the UK will be faced with 3 options. There are only 3 and can never be more than 3.
1. Accept the negotiated deal
2. Say sorry we can't accept the deal, but we don't want to leave without one so let's negotiate ANOTHER delay and try again.
3. Reject the negotiated deal and say sorry, we're off with no deal and WTO terms
Those are the ONLY options.
Corbyn would have us unilaterally remove option 3. Can people not see how utterly bonkers that is??? How on earth, do we expect to get a favourable outcome from an EU which does not want us to leave, if the EU knows that our only options are to accept whatever shitty deal they offer, or to stay in? Can anyone explain to me how that can possibly work, and how that can in any way be a good idea???
I am in sales and negotiate contracts with clients all the time. That's my job. How on earth would i maximise the revenue for my company if my opening line with procurement was "Let me just start by saying I do not have a walk away position, and i will accept any price you care to name"?
It is a total joke. The only people espousing this as a strategy can only be thick as pig shit, or have ulterior motives, like us never leaving at all.
I've seen it since day one.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
My only question is the relative ratios of "thick as pig shit" vs "ulterior motive".I've seen it since day one.
B
B
blueinsa
Guest
My only question is the relative ratios of "thick as pig shit" vs "ulterior motive".
With remain its 100% ulterior motive.
Blue Hefner
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 11 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 15,461
Irritating, isn't it?For the umpteenth time, it is NOT a lie to say something unless you know it to be untrue. And I don't doubt for one moment that he had every intention of delivering Brexit by end of October (do you???), so I am 100% sure he did not know it to be untrue. So it was not a lie. It may have been foolish to over promise (I don't think it was) but it was not a lie.
Second, are we REALLY so petty minded as to accuse someone of lying about saying "I'd rather be dead in a ditch". Is the expression "Over my dead body" in future only to mean that someone is LITERALLY prepared to kill themselves before XYZ event happens. REALLY? That is SUCH a lame criticism, it really is. It was a figure of speech expressing his firm commitment in the strongest possible terms. Nothing more, nothing less. Picking him up on that is playground stuff.
Finally, how on EARTH can someone criticise Johnson for sending the begging letter to the EU, when those doing the criticizing, supported the action FORCING him to send it??? What a ludicrous position to take.
Seriously, I think there's enough people in the public who are not so dim as to see what's going on here. Johnson enemies trying to throw every bit of shite at him they possibly can. That's all fine and well, but when the shite is so unjustifiable and unreasonable, people see it for what it is: shit-stirring, and nothing more than that. And it backfires on the shit-stirrers. The polls would seem to indicate that is exactly how the public view this. If you are going to have some criticism of Johnson, make it genuine rather than the sanctimonious, hypocritical and downright silly rubbish being thrown at the moment.
You've spent three years explaining to leavers that the damage of leaving is permanent. You want that shit not to go away to avoid a bit of parliamentary bother now (never ending palaver). Palaver now to stop it or never ending palaver...I am a Remainer FFS! I voted Remain but just want this shit to go away.
Where's that been hiding? So that's him, Rees Mogg and Liar Johnson himself who have advocated referendums on principle then on any deal.
Saddleworth2
Well-Known Member
we shall see.Well dine out on that, because the sound of it is all you're getting.
My only question is the relative ratios of "thick as pig shit" vs "ulterior motive".
I wouldn't have said it doesn't work to give a vote to the broader public, many of whom are thick as pig shit, can be easily manipulated and who usually gravitate towards self-interest and short term gain.
But you did.
Absolutely, totally agree with you.
The only reason I've advocated a second referendum was that it was the only way I could see we could reasonably cancel the previous one. But in reality I don't want any. It's no coincidence that we've had a stable system of democracy the way it is for hundreds of years.
You let people decide who they want to represent them, and then the representatives, who you would hope are of above average intelligence and have more experience and time to debate things, get to work out between them the best course of action in any particular area. The system may be imperfect, but it's the best we have and it works.
What does not work is giving a vote to broader public, many of whom are thick as pig shit, can be easily manipulated and who usually gravitate towards self-interest and short term gain. And I am not talking about Brexit here, nor Brexiter or Remainers. Just generally.
Anne Robinson: How many wheels are there on a unicycle?
Contestant: Er, three?
Why on earth would you trust people like that to make a decision on a complex, very complex, issue? Bonkers.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
Honestly, seriously, I just find it a bit pathetic and childish.Irritating, isn't it?
We may not like the 2016 referendum result. Surely you can recognise that I certainly did not and I still do not. It's not something I want and our leaving will impact upon me badly.
But we simply cannot, whatever the circumstances, hold a referendum the result of which all concerned say will be binding, respected and acted upon, and then turn around later and say "you know what, we're not sure you meant it, have another go". People can dress a second referendum up anyway they like to make it sound better. Call it a "Peoples' vote" FFS, say "if we'd know then what we know now, etc etc etc" But in reality it's a 2nd bite at the cherry for us Remainers who lost, and another hurdle for those who won already. It's not on.
Johnson, who if you've read my posts, I have never been a fan of, to his great credit has come in, shaken everything up, gained movement from the EU where they said there would be none, and somehow, has managed to tread the delicate line needed to get a very very slim majority in favour of *something*. Yes his tactics have been crass and bull in a china shop, but desperate situations call for desperate means. His holding everyone's feet to the fire about the end of October and the no deal threat, shook things up. It needed shaking up.
I can see this as a Remainer. I suspect in your heart of hearts you can see it as well. He's done a decent job, but your hatred of Tories and hatred of the Brexit result is a mist that seems to cloud all rational judgement.
Last edited:
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
And?I wouldn't have said it doesn't work to give a vote to the broader public, many of whom are thick as pig shit, can be easily manipulated and who usually gravitate towards self-interest and short term gain.
But you did.
I stand by those comments. What of it? I don't believe in referendums, I think they are a terrible idea and moreover completely incompatible with our form of democracy.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No, I've come to realise after 3.5 years that this is never going away unless we get it done. The never ending palaver is delaying it more and more and more and ultimately, cancelling the whole thing by revocation or referendum. Which would solve nothing.You've spent three years explaining to leavers that the damage of leaving is permanent. You want that shit not to go away to avoid a bit of parliamentary bother now (never ending palaver). Palaver now to stop it or never ending palaver...
Glad you recognise the superior intelligence of Remain voters (generally) but I'd be interested to know what these ulterior motives are.With remain its 100% ulterior motive.
Maintaining the union, keeping us from massive economic damage, giving a say to people too young to vote in 2016 who have to live with it, giving a democratic chance to change mind... Lots of motives, but what are the supposed ulterior motives?
(Obviously we allege tax avoidance and currency speculation and other stuff as ulterior motives for leave supporters; what do you see?)
Hating the Tory party is perfectly rational.Honestly, seriously, I just find it a bit pathetic and childish.
We may not like the 2016 referendum result. Surely you can recognise that I certainly did not and I still do not. It's not something I want and our leaving will impact upon me badly.
But we simply cannot, whatever the circumstances, hold a referendum the result of which all concerned say will be binding, respected and acted upon, and then turn around later and say "you know what, we're not sure you meant it, have another go". People can dress a second referendum up anyway they like to make it sound better. Call it a "Peoples' vote" FFS, say "if we'd know then what we know now, etc etc etc" But in reality it's a 2nd bite at the cherry for us Remainers who lost, and another hurdle for those who won already. It's not on.
Johnson, who if you've read my posts, I have never been a fan of, to his great credit has come in, shaken everything up, gained movement from the EU where they said there would be none, and somehow, has managed to tread the delicate line needed to get a very very slim majority in favour of *something*. Yes his tactics have been crass and bull in a china shop, but desperate situations call for desperate means. His holding everyone's feet to the fire about the end of October and the no deal threat, shook things up. It needed shaking up.
I can see this as a Remainer. I suspect in your heart of hearts you can see it as well. He's done a decent job, but your hatred of Tories and hatred of the Brexit result is a mist that seems to cloud al rational judgement.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
No Vic, it isn't, and that you cannot see that is, day by day, less and less surprising to me.Hating the Tory party is perfectly rational.
You know that Leaving under this deal would not end the palaver. Your new "likers" are split between advocates for EFTA and those who call that BRINO. If we do leave, the next thread will be a fight between them, plus No Dealers = never ending palaver.No, I've come to realise after 3.5 years that this is never going away unless we get it done. The never ending palaver is delaying it more and more and more and ultimately, cancelling the whole thing by revocation or referendum. Which would solve nothing.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
I don't agree. I think we'll have a GE, I think Boris will win and I think Parliament will vote for an FTA and the ERG will have to suck up not getting their "clean break" and Labour will have to suck up not getting their customs union. (Which incidentally is an entirely unjustifiable aspiration since it would not take back control of our borders.) This impasse is caused by fuckwit May losing her majority. Had she not fucked that up, we'd have left already.You know that Leaving under this deal would not end the palaver. Your new "likers" are split between advocates for EFTA and those who call that BRINO. If we do leave, the next thread will be a fight between them, plus No Dealers = never ending palaver.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.