Another new Brexit thread

[Coatigan]

It has become increasingly clear No Deal Leave or Revoke are the only two conclusions. All the middle ground fucking about with new negotiations and new deals and further referendums etc isn't going to wash with the electorate. I really do wonder is Johnson, faced with the info he will have about the damage a No Deal will do , prepared to go through with it.

i think he is. whether intentionally, through a lack of ability, or purely misguided inertia, i can see it happening the way things are going.

 

[Chippy_boy]

As predicted we are headed toward no deal

"Person says something prior to negotiations".

Well shock horror. Huge NON story here.

I'll file that next to "PM Johnson has stated that if an agreement is to be reached it goes by way of eliminating the backstop. This is of course unacceptable and not within the mandate of the European council,” - Michel Barnier, shortly before renegotiating the WA and removing the all-UK backstop.

 

[west didsblue]

"Person says something prior to negotiations".

Well shock horror. Huge NON story here.

I'll file that next to "PM Johnson has stated that if an agreement is to be reached it goes by way of eliminating the backstop. This is of course unacceptable and not within the mandate of the European council,” - Michel Barnier, shortly before renegotiating the WA and removing the all-UK backstop.

....and agreeing a customs border down the Irish Sea as proposed by the EU 3 years ago. Some victory!

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

It sounds like there is a deal possible, one with level playing field conditions. The sort that Labour would negotiate then put back to the people.

That ought to be easy to sell - even Mr Gove could say it fulfilled the referendum pledge that we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.

But why do you wonder if Liar Johnson would not go ahead with a hugely damaging No Deal? He's said he would. Of course, Liar Johnson could be lying.

But how do you know what would wash with the electorate? How would we know? Surely not by people voting in a GE for what a liar says.

It seems not just Johnson is lying. Labour could not implement their manifesto pledge to renationalise things and stick to the 'level playing field' or indeed EU membership.

 

[dave_blue12]

"Person says something prior to negotiations".

Well shock horror. Huge NON story here.

I'll file that next to "PM Johnson has stated that if an agreement is to be reached it goes by way of eliminating the backstop. This is of course unacceptable and not within the mandate of the European council,” - Michel Barnier, shortly before renegotiating the WA and removing the all-UK backstop.

This is just confirmation of what I have been saying all along. Barnier is signalling the reality, something is sadly lacking in the debate in this country.

There will be no deal. Unless we are going to align there can be no deal in the timeframe available.

Your chums in the Tory party are fucking the people of this country over again, no great surprise there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

....and agreeing a customs border down the Irish Sea as proposed by the EU 3 years ago. Some victory!

Missing the point a bit there mate. To spell it out, the point being that people say all sorts of things prior to negotiations, only to concede them later. They said no way, no how would they be renegotiating the WA or the backstop, and yet when faced with just a tiny bit of pressure, they did.

 

[Chippy_boy]

This is just confirmation of what I have been saying all along. Barnier is signalling the reality, something is sadly lacking in the debate in this country.

There will be no deal. Unless we are going to align there can be no deal in the timeframe available.

Your chums in the Tory party are fucking the people of this country over again, no great surprise there.

Rubbish, pure and simple.

If anyone has any experience of negotiations whatsoever, they understand that people set out all sorts of demands at the outset which they concede later on. Of course they only do this if/when they have to, in order to secure a deal. And they will do not so, if they can get away with out it. This is blindingly obvious. Which is why the Benn ("Bean" would have been a more apt term) legislation preventing no deal, was so utterly idiotic.

If Johnson wins the GE, he will set out on the same tack as he did with the October 31st deadline. He will be saying we are out come what may by <date> and no matter what we are leaving on that date, on WTO terms if necessary. And the EU will cave in on all sorts of things, because they absolutely DO NOT want an economy like Singapore 26 miles off the coast of France, able to cut corporation tax, cut VAT, cut EU legislation and able to offer all sorts of incentives for foreign investors to come to the UK and not the EU.

Are the EU going to admit this now? Of course not, they are not idiots. The twitter post we are talking about here was ludicrous and pure political spin. Nothing more.

 

[dave_blue12]

Rubbish, pure and simple.

If anyone has any experience of negotiations whatsoever, they understand that people set out all sorts of demands at the outset which they concede later on. Of course they only do this if/when they have to, in order to secure a deal. And they will do not so, if they can get away with out it. This is blindingly obvious. Which is why the Benn ("Bean" would have been a more apt term) legislation preventing no deal, was so utterly idiotic.

If Johnson wins the GE, he will set out on the same tack as he did with the October 31st deadline. He will be saying we are out come what may by <date> and no matter what we are leaving on that date, on WTO terms if necessary. And the EU will cave in on all sorts of things, because they absolutely DO NOT want an economy like Singapore 26 miles off the coast of France, able to cut corporation tax, cut VAT, cut EU legislation and able to offer all sorts of incentives for foreign investors to come to the UK and not the EU.

Are the EU going to admit this now? Of course not, don't be ridiculous. The twitter post we are talking about here was ludicrous and pure political spin. Nothing more.

I am confident that you are the one talking rubbish. You do so with great confidence and just like your cornershop economics you are wrong. Your posts should carry a party political warning.

Either way not long to wait to see who's right, assuming Johnson wins.

Here's an amusing prospect for you

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

I am confident that you are the one talking rubbish. You do so with great confidence and just like your cornershop economics you are wrong. Your posts should carry a party political warning.

Either way not long to wait to see who's right, assuming Johnson wins.

Here's an amusing prospect for you

Same folk saying the EU are immovable now as were saying they would never reopen negotiations a couple of months ago. It seems the talking of bollocks is not purely a preserve of the Brexiteers.
It also seems by quoting that tweet you are falling for something written on the side of a bus - surely Remainers are better than that?

 

[bluethrunthru]

[URL='https://twitter.com/AngelCageBand']Angel Cage[URL='https://twitter.com/AngelCageBand']@AngelCageBand[/URL][/URL]


'Prince Andrew ?' 'Haven't seen it.
' 'British orphans in Syria ?' 'No comment.'
'Bribing Brexit Party candidates ?' 'Haven't heard anything.'
'Why haven't you published the Russia report ?' 'Because Corbyn is a traitor.'
Brandon Lewis #Ridge

 

[George Hannah]

The Momentumists of Uxbridge are pretty sophisticated compared to many it seems - to see the GE debate presented in these terms says a lot about our country.

 

[SWP's back]

Posters like him who live in other countries really need to come clean about how or if Brexit will affect them.
It's easy to support a major change like Brexit whose outcome is unknown when you have nothing to lose if it goes wrong

Some who don’t live in the U.K. can see the economic suicide Brexit brings.

 

[SWP's back]

Your Welcome

You’re*

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

I can’t understand why any right thinking person would post this or like it when it implies amusement at people losing their jobs.

It's almost like you'd have to be a massive knobhead to find it funny

 

[dave_blue12]

The Momentumists of Uxbridge are pretty sophisticated compared to many it seems - to see the GE debate presented in these terms says a lot about our country.

I agree.

Sadly it seems the electorate of our country are swayed by simplistic tribal messages. You only have to read for 5 minutes on here to see that is true.

However, with my simplistic head on I did find them turning Johnson's 'fuck business' around on him amusing.

I would also find it hugely amusing if Johnson lost his seat, given the complete contempt he shows for the people of this country. Watching Prince Andrew last night he reminded me of Johnson. The same air of entitlement.

 

[Vic]

Missing the point a bit there mate. To spell it out, the point being that people say all sorts of things prior to negotiations, only to concede them later. They said no way, no how would they be renegotiating the WA or the backstop, and yet when faced with just a tiny bit of pressure, they did.

Seriously? You're still peddling this? They said no way to removing the backstop - until Johnson said he'd accept a deal "no British government could accept", a deal that meant there was no need for a backstop.

I think you predicted it...

...As far as I can tell, the EU have said no more tweaks to her deal, but I am not sure that ANY other sort of deal is out of the question. Were she to give in on her red lines and accept customs union membership, for example, then the NI and associated backstop problem goes away and many variations might be possible.....

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Same folk saying the EU are immovable now as were saying they would never reopen negotiations a couple of months ago. It seems the talking of bollocks is not purely a preserve of the Brexiteers.
It also seems by quoting that tweet you are falling for something written on the side of a bus - surely Remainers are better than that?

You're aware we took the offer that the EU originally set out about having the border in the Irish sea? The deal Boris Johnson himself said no prime minister should accept?

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

You're aware we took the offer that the EU originally set out about having the border in the Irish sea? The deal Boris Johnson himself said no prime minister should accept?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Boris isn't a liar that talks bollocks, just that he's in good company.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I am confident that you are the one talking rubbish.

Based on what, Dave? Venezuela? I mean seriously, how many successful politically hard left economies can you name. Seriously.

How many times does your political standpoint have to be proven to be a failure before you will recognise it? 100 times? 1,000 times? High taxes, high regulation, state-interference with this ridiculous "we know best" ideology, has failed time and time and time again. And yet you *still* refuse to accept it.

And you accuse *me* of being brainwashed? It's really quite astonishing. Maybe you are only in your 20's or something and do no remember what shit we had to put up with under Wilson, for example? Or maybe you've just not read up on these things, I really do not know. But unless - as per Corbyn and McDonnell you are ideologically on some mission of hatred for the well-off, irrespective of how much you fuck everyone else over as well, then pursuing the sorts of policies Corbyn and McDonnell espouse, makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[George Hannah]

I agree. Sadly it seems the electorate of our country are swayed by simplistic tribal messages. You only have to read for 5 minutes on here to see that is true. However, with my simplistic head on I did find them turning Johnson's 'fuck business' around on him amusing. I would also find it hugely amusing if Johnson lost his seat, given the complete contempt he shows for the people of this country. Watching Prince Andrew last night he reminded me of Johnson. The same air of entitlement.

Except the reverse is the case - Johnson is actually the great hope and patsy of the raw capitalist lobby and Brexit is their gamechanger. For me the reptilian repose of Rees Mogg is the true trademark of entitlement and the squirmings of minor Royals just another smokescreen.