General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
The perfect fumble said:
Post imperialism, class is the single biggest factor in our decline as a country, it has prevented this great nation from utilising the talents of all its citizens.

I could quote you studies that categorically prove this, but you'd not read them, not surprisingly you prefer your class stereotypes and caricatures, which rather proves my point.
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Blue Hefner said:
50% in less than 10 years, that seems incredible to me but I've had a quick look and it seems as though you are correct. It makes me ask, where is all the money going?
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From the rest of us to the already-rich.

But for the post crash recession it would have been similar in Labour's last ten years but that went to Sure Start centres, reducing class sizes, and eliminating NHS waiting lists etc etc. Stuff for the public good, not private benefit. For the many, not the few.
 
BobKowalski said:
Demographics. No one from Europe is retiring to the U.K. to enjoy our sunny climes. Put a tax on migration then you inhibit younger migration and given our current demographic skewing upwards in age then that’s the last thing we need.

Like all Western European developed economies we need younger people in the labour pool. Everything else is just screaming at the sky.
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And the Tories' latest wheeze is to ask new EU migrant workers £625 upfront to access the NHS even if they never need a doctor.
 
Bigga said:
Now, this super interesting to me. A 15 min discussion (if you can be bothered to listen to the complete thing?)

Richard Wolff looks over the current political situation on these shores and his:



What are your thoughts on his insights?
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Are we really poorer than 2010? I don't think so.
 
Bigga said:
Now, this super interesting to me. A 15 min discussion (if you can be bothered to listen to the complete thing?)

Richard Wolff looks over the current political situation on these shores and his:



What are your thoughts on his insights?
Click to expand...


Interesting points. On the scapegoating and pushing all our ills on to Europe/EU etc that is essentially Brexit. Things are bad because we let them control us. Cast them aside and thrive yada, yada. What is never mentioned is the absolute balls up we made of the things we did control and the use of austerity for political and not just fiscal reasons which has resulted in negative wage growth something that didn’t happen in the EU other than Greece if I recall.

Felt his analysis of the Corbyn/anti semitism problem was superficial as Corbyn needed to have shown leadership and didn’t which allowed the problem and the perception of it to increase. I like McDonnell’s ideas and I do think we need to reasses and reevaluate who we are, what we want to be and address the changes that are coming and that need to come. But there is a knee jerk resistance to anything that smacks of change even something as uncontroversial as access to broadband for everyone. And it’s more about shooting the messenger than the message.

Labour’s policies are unlikely to be that radical. Most of them will be seen as bog standard in most European countries. Here though it’s ‘broadband communism’ lol.
 
Vic said:
And the Tories' latest wheeze is to ask new EU migrant workers £625 upfront to access the NHS even if they never need a doctor.
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Whilst paying tax and NI as well.

The bankruptcy and failure to understand that other countries will have a say in this is the one thing that gives me confidence. A Johnson Govt will be devoid of ideas and competence. Only thing it has going for them is brand recognition.
 
west didsblue said:
Many of the UK citizens in the EU are retired in Spain and have greater healthcare needs than many of the 2.4M EU citizens that are working in the UK. Swings and roundabouts.
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I don't know whether that's true. According to https://britishineurope.org/, no more than 20% of Brits in the EU are retired. Obviously, there are other things to consider and I'm far from an expert on the EU model on healthcare but with them numbers, it will be interesting to see if it's truly reciprocal.

'HOW MANY BRITS IN EUROPE ARE PENSIONERS?
Of the 1.24 million Brits in Europe, British in Europe estimate that around 200 – 250,000 are retired. So no more than 20%. The rest being of working age. There is a common misconception that the majority of Brits in Europe are retired. That’s simply not the case'.

Edit: just reading up a bit more on your point, there's about 90,000 EU retirees living in the UK so you're right there is a demographic skew but I'd still guess it's nowhere near enough to offset the extra 1.2 EU citizens in the UK.
 
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purplenose said:
I actually dont approve of it no...did use it once one here a should not have dont quite frankly but I do see it slightly different in so much as it has no reference to skin colour nor directed at a particular sex or age.
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I would beg to differ on that but will leave it there everyone has their own interpretations.
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
Unbelievable comments from Corbyn this morning.
The country is full, NHS on the brink of collapse and the roads a disgrace and this clown wants to let more Europeans in, some who wont have to pay a penny.
I hope Boris wipes the floor with him and obliterates them out of site.
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More of them ? You meen people to help with the huge NHS staff and recruitment shortages.
 
blueparrot said:
More of them ? You meen people to help with the huge NHS staff and recruitment shortages.
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Do you not agree the country is full?
I applaud immigration but is has to be controlled?
Not a simple wave them in policy the Corbyn is advocating?
I'm sorry but I dont agree
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
Do you not agree the country is full?
I applaud immigration but is has to be controlled?
Not a simple wave them in policy the Corbyn is advocating?
I'm sorry but I dont agree
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You don't agree with what @blueparrot is saying?

So, tell us, as I work within the NHS, where do we find the doctors and nurses needed to aid the 'failing NHS' cos there are not enough staff to help with the currents numbers of FAILING productivity??

Just how many Brits are being trained to take up the slack of thos forced to quit citing stress, illness and workload, along with bad pay? Or even looking to take their skills abroad to NZ or Oz because the the work to life balance is better?

You are REALLY short sighted!

We are living a work more for less society.

Sort that napper out!!
 
Fame Monster said:
I don't know whether that's true. According to https://britishineurope.org/, no more than 20% of Brits in the EU are retired. Obviously, there are other things to consider and I'm far from an expert on the EU model on healthcare but with them numbers, it will be interesting to see if it's truly reciprocal.

'HOW MANY BRITS IN EUROPE ARE PENSIONERS?
Of the 1.24 million Brits in Europe, British in Europe estimate that around 200 – 250,000 are retired. So no more than 20%. The rest being of working age. There is a common misconception that the majority of Brits in Europe are retired. That’s simply not the case'.

Edit: just reading up a bit more on your point, there's about 90,000 EU retirees living in the UK so you're right there is a demographic skew but I'd still guess it's nowhere near enough to offset the extra 1.2 EU citizens in the UK.
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So from your figures there’s 2.3M EU citizens working in the UK including their dependents and just 1M UK citizens in the EU. Therefore assuming tax rates are broadly comparable there’s 2.3 times as much tax being paid by EU citizens to the UK exchequer than by UK citizens to EU countries. Not having reciprocal health care arrangements would be churlish and would call into question other areas where there is reciprocity, and the bottom line is that the both UK and EU citizens effectively pay for their health care in their host countries through taxation.
 
west didsblue said:
So from your figures there’s 2.3M EU citizens working in the UK including their dependents and just 1M UK citizens in the EU. Therefore assuming tax rates are broadly comparable there’s 2.3 times as much tax being paid by EU citizens to the UK exchequer than by UK citizens to EU countries. Not having reciprocal health care arrangements would be churlish and would call into question other areas where there is reciprocity, and the bottom line is that the both UK and EU citizens effectively pay for their health care in their host countries through taxation.
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Need to factor in the better health provision in the UK, higher standards of treatment etc. But from those figures in isolation it seems like it's in our favour.
 
Bigga said:
You don't agree with what @blueparrot is saying?

So, tell us, as I work within the NHS, where do we find the doctors and nurses needed to aid the 'failing NHS' cos there are not enough staff to help with the currents numbers of FAILING productivity??

Just how many Brits are being trained to take up the slack of thos forced to quit citing stress, illness and workload, along with bad pay? Or even looking to take their skills abroad to NZ or Oz because the the work to life balance is better?

You are REALLY short sighted!

We are living a work more for less society.

Sort that napper out!!
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I'm not being short sighted and I have some friends who work in the NHS and I admire the work and hours you do. Most people jump to conclusions that leavers are all bigots when there not.
My issue is not with people coming here and working hard and the NHS is an area I agree we need them. Many looked after my dad in Salford last year before he died.

My issue is more people who come here with no job or prospects and "use" our system to gain more or less free healthcare without ever paying into the system. This has to stop and I totally back the conservatives.
And yes most people now work for less.
I have put countless hours unpaid for 30 years, if I didn't I'd lose my job.
It's not just the NHS mate.
 
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