General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%

  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%

  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%

  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%

  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%

  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%
  • Total voters
    518
Ancient Citizen said:
The back he stabbed was about as popular as herpes, then when he got in, the EU all of a sudden started talking, something
that many on here, in parliament, in fact every remainer, said they would NEVER do.
Yet they did.
Now I know this will bring yet another flurry of it was this, that, or the other, that did it, but frankly, at this juncture, not many shits are
given, because it's all been done, and Johnson's deal passed passed in parliament.
Click to expand...
They started talking about a deal they had already offered, a deal he said was unnacceptable. He's dressed it up as a victory and you've fallen for his bluster along with the ERG. It hasn't passed as the new parliament will have to vote again.
 
blueparrot said:
They started talking about a deal they had already offered, a deal he said was unnacceptable. He's dressed it up as a victory and you've fallen for his bluster along with the ERG. It hasn't passed as the new parliament will have to vote again.
Click to expand...
I've fallen for nothing, and the pedantry about parliament is just that. I know it has to go through again, if there were no
GE, it was going for a second reading, the point is, if he wins, it flies through, as you must know.
If he doesn't win, there is no Brexit, I know, and you know this also, but what we also know, is it ushers in Corbyn.
 
Blue Hefner said:
50% in less than 10 years, that seems incredible to me but I've had a quick look and it seems as though you are correct. It makes me ask, where is all the money going?
Click to expand...
_94224674_health_spending_growth.png
 
Ancient Citizen said:
The back he stabbed was about as popular as herpes, then when he got in, the EU all of a sudden started talking, something
that many on here, in parliament, in fact every remainer, said they would NEVER do.
Yet they did.
Now I know this will bring yet another flurry of it was this, that, or the other, that did it, but frankly, at this juncture, not many shits are
given, because it's all been done, and Johnson's deal passed passed in parliament.
Click to expand...
Johnson says his deal was blocked by Parliament... He can't even tell the truth about that.
 
Chippy_boy said:
_94224674_health_spending_growth.png
Click to expand...

But that's called inflation and I am sure if you compared a price of a pint of beer you could produce a similar results. If you look at things as economist do then this paints a whole different picture.

More specifically in terms how our expenditure on healthcare compares to other countries (sorry I am shit at uploading pictures never works for me)
https://ibb.co/grchWhC

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...espendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

When you put things into context with say US who spend £7,736 per person and people die because they don't have the right cover. Compared to £2,989 we pay which is free at point of service it non to shabby in that despite its chronic underfunding (through political choices) we have service that works for everyone.

https://ibb.co/Jd4LMzJ

As a % of GDP 9.6% again when compared to other G7 countries represents value for money. The US is a spending an eye watering 17.1% its frightening to imagine us ending up like them?
 
George Hannah said:
Reflects a rising and ageing population - on average it costs twice as much to treat each 65+ year old as for each 30 year old.
Click to expand...

You’d do well to remember its better to not post shite and let everyone think you are an idiot than post shite and confirm it.
 
mcfc1632 said:
There are millions of us normal Labour voters that are no longer intending to vote Labour due to the policies of the current leadership and the attitudes of the 'purists' such as yourself

You can take comfort in your 'purism' as you sit on the side-lines for the rest of your life protesting in your bitterness but achieving fuck all
Click to expand...

The only one talking about purism and normal is you.

You're our very own Bluemoon Don Quixote, tilting at windmills, attacking imaginary enemies, living in a fantasy world entirely of your own making.
 
Vic said:
Misconduct in public office is a criminal offence. Using public money to benefit a spouse (or mistress) is a clear breach of the Nolan principles.

Integrity
Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships.

Mind you, "honesty" is also one of the principles...


An interview under caution is the best to hope for before the election, but I'd imagine "getting Brexit done" would trump any moral concerns about getting a corrupt politician as PM.
Click to expand...

Sadly I think you're right.
 
Ancient Citizen said:
This typifies the current state of the Labour party, Blair, the most successful labour leader ever, won three elections,
purely because he managed to attract Conservative voters, in fact he attracted them in large numbers.
The current Momentum gripped mob's campaigning strategy seems to be, if they vote Tory, fuck'em.
Somehow, I think that may not go down too well.
Click to expand...

New Labour's high priest Tony Blair, attracted Tory voters because he was a third way/one nation/socially liberal/ neoliberal Tory.
 
Vic said:
Misconduct in public office is a criminal offence. Using public money to benefit a spouse (or mistress) is a clear breach of the Nolan principles. Integrity
Holders of public office must avoid placing themselves under any obligation to people or organisations that might try inappropriately to influence them in their work. They should not act or take decisions in order to gain financial or other material benefits for themselves, their family, or their friends. They must declare and resolve any interests and relationships. Mind you, "honesty" is also one of the principles...An interview under caution is the best to hope for before the election, but I'd imagine "getting Brexit done" would trump any moral concerns about getting a corrupt politician as PM.
Click to expand...
I wonder how Corbyn would fare in interview under caution about his IRA associations during the 'troubles'?
 
Vic said:
Not as desperate as an erstwhile Labour voter happy to have a corrupt Tory politcian as PM so long as he delivers the policy you want.
Click to expand...
Well - that is just more deflection - and a desperate attempt at that as well

It is clear from what I have posted that the reason that I will not vote Labour at the moment is to do with the current leadership - McDonnell concerns me far more than Corbyn.

TBF though - I could be persuaded to vote on a one-off for any party that would guarantee Brexit being implemented - but that is an aside on this discussion. In fact its only relevance is that the only way I would vote for the current LP is if they were true to previous commitments to implement leaving the EU.

For me this is not the 'Labour party' and should be renamed to make clear its political leaning.

By this I mean it is not the Labour party as that brand is understood by the majority of people alive today that has experienced the Labour 'in power'.
​
@Ancient Citizen explained it well:
Ancient Citizen said:
This typifies the current state of the Labour party, Blair, the most successful labour leader ever, won three elections,
purely because he managed to attract Conservative voters, in fact he attracted them in large numbers.
The current Momentum gripped mob's campaigning strategy seems to be, if they vote Tory, fuck'em.
Somehow, I think that may not go down too well.
Click to expand...

The problem with the LP at present is that it cannot attract many of its traditional voters - like @blueinsa and myself - let alone floating voters and even some centrist Tories

There are a number of us on here that have sought to explain / debate this over the years and yet all we get is responses basically saying 'fuck off - you are not left enough'

Well you reap what you sow and as I mentioned earlier to fumble - what you will be reaping is the opportunity of more decades on the side lines protesting - because the reason that the LP will not, during your lifetime, ever be in power and able to 'implement its policies' is down to two things:

a) its leadership and policies and

b) the attitudes of a lot of its supporters on social media going out of their way to fuck off the many potential voters that they should be seeking to encourage.
 
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Mike D said:
But that's called inflation and I am sure if you compared a price of a pint of beer you could produce a similar results. If you look at things as economist do then this paints a whole different picture.

More specifically in terms how our expenditure on healthcare compares to other countries (sorry I am shit at uploading pictures never works for me)
https://ibb.co/grchWhC

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...espendingcomparewithothercountries/2019-08-29

When you put things into context with say US who spend £7,736 per person and people die because they don't have the right cover. Compared to £2,989 we pay which is free at point of service it non to shabby in that despite its chronic underfunding (through political choices) we have service that works for everyone.

https://ibb.co/Jd4LMzJ

As a % of GDP 9.6% again when compared to other G7 countries represents value for money. The US is a spending an eye watering 17.1% its frightening to imagine us ending up like them?
Click to expand...

I think the graph he posted was real terms which account for inflation and suggest that, contrary to the claims by Labour that healthcare has been savagely cut, it's not true. Healthcare has had its spending protected and increased in real terms but especially so in comparison to a lot of other public services. The question though is why is the NHS seemingly going backwards and where is all the money going? I'd suspect it isn't necessarily the financing that is the biggest issue, and while demographics plays a part, it is the outsourcing, agencies, PFIs, and part-privatisation of the NHS that accounts for a lot of the waste and even though a lot of that begun under Blair, it has increased under the Tories for ideological reasons above all else. There is also the failure to reclaim money from a lot of other countries for treating their citizens.
 
The perfect fumble said:
New Labour's high priest Tony Blair, attracted Tory voters because he was a third way/one nation/socially liberal/ neoliberal Tory.
Click to expand...
Correct, which is what most of the country wants,and he implemented more policies to help working families than Corbyn ever will. To be fair though he'd only have needed to introduce one good policy to have been more use to society than Corbyn with all his ideology will have been when we end up with Johnson again.
 
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