General Election - December 12th, 2019

[BobKowalski]

I know, I know ... but even now Halligan is still trying. What he's promoting as a benefit of Brexit is in fairness what the now abolished regional development agencies were created for and which EU trading constraints effectively prevent. To equalise economic investment across the country and in particular to channel it from the South East to less prosperous areas.

Equalising economic investment is a laudable goal and one we need to achieve. Other European countries achieve it irrespective of EU membership. Germany has strong regional Govt and there is less disparity between regions (East Germany aside which has a specific set of problems).

RDA’s ran for 12 years and were abolished in 2010 as part of the austerity drive. Fail to see how the EU factors into this.

 

[Vic]

Liam Halligan on Politics Live just talking about regionalizaion as a benefit of Brexit which is hardly mentioned by its proponents. Posted this related article on another thread from the Labour perspective -
Direct challenge to the party's fundamental policy direction in the Guardian today
For real change, Labour should ditch its top-down thinking

John Harris
Genuinely modern socialism would revolutionise Westminster and Whitehall and disperse power to local government
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...our-real-change-top-down-thinking-westminster

That reads like a journalist having to write something, anything.

The Tories abolished regions. And you find an article that sounds vaguely anti-Labour about regional government.

Actual Labour policy:

https://www.civilserviceworld.com/a...-servants-out-london-give-‘power-communities’

 

[BobKowalski]

All about finding the sweet spot which is harder than finding the.......

Too crude

I’m sure Johnson is adept at finding that sweet spot if little else.

I do object to being treated as an idiot. ‘Cutting taxes increases revenue’, ‘We are scrapping this tax cut to increase revenue’.

And we just swallow this shit.

 

[Vic]

I know, I know ... but even now Halligan is still trying. What he's promoting as a benefit of Brexit is in fairness what the now abolished regional development agencies were created for and which EU trading constraints effectively prevent. To equalise economic investment across the country and in particular to channel it from the South East to less prosperous areas.

Who abolished the RDAs? Where has all the EU money gone that used to come to the regions through them?

 

[Vic]

More to do with you being a raging hypocrite, for example your finding the word liar offensive and yet using it yourself with complete abandone.

Only for Liar Johnson because er, he tells lots of lies.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...airwaves-keen-to-avoid-the-truth-at-all-costs

 

[George Hannah]

Equalising economic investment is a laudable goal and one we need to achieve. Other European countries achieve it irrespective of EU membership. Germany has strong regional Govt and there is less disparity between regions (East Germany aside which has a specific set of problems).
RDA’s ran for 12 years and were abolished in 2010 as part of the austerity drive. Fail to see how the EU factors into this.

Our regional government was modelled on the federal German structure when it was first set up in the 90s. The plain fact is that the EU does not want to strengthen regional identity or separatist trends. As it was famously put by Jean-Claude Juncker "We do not want an EU with 95 different countries tomorrow, or the day after. We would lose control. National unity and European unity are things that go together."( Scots please note.)

The real argument for Brexit has been made from the moment we joined. A Foreign and Commonwealth Office paper - written in April 1971 and labelled FCO30/1048 – which was initially withheld under the Official Secrets Act – made it clear that the EU was preparing for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy. It also made clear that ‘Community law’ would take precedence over UK courts and that ever more power would pass away from the UK parliament to Brussels. The paper acknowledged this would lead to a ‘popular feeling of alienation from Government’ and politicians were advised ‘not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community’. It anticipated that this strategy could last ‘for this century at least’ – by which time the UK would be so subordinated to Brussels, it would be impossible to leave the EU." Looks a pretty accurate forecast.

Who abolished the RDAs? Where has all the EU money gone that used to come to the regions through them?

You seem to forget we are (and always have been) a net contributor.

 

[Len Rum]

Andrew Neil with the burn...

‘Boris Johnson tells CBI he’s “postponing” further cuts in corporation tax (from 19% to 17%) because this will save £6bn to spend on public services. Yet only this morning his Business Secretary was telling the BBC that previous cuts in CT had generated MORE revenues’

The old lie.

 

[Vic]

Equalising economic investment is a laudable goal and one we need to achieve. Other European countries achieve it irrespective of EU membership. Germany has strong regional Govt and there is less disparity between regions (East Germany aside which has a specific set of problems).

RDA’s ran for 12 years and were abolished in 2010 as part of the austerity drive. Fail to see how the EU factors into this.

It wasn't just austerity. The RDAs had become another power base.

"We are reviewing all the functions of the RDAs. We believe some of these are best led nationally, such as inward investment, sector leadership, responsibility for business support, innovation, and access to finance, such as venture capital funds. Some of their existing roles are being scrapped, such as Regional Strategies. The forthcoming White Paper on sub-national economic growth will set out our approach in more detail."

Part centralisation, part divide and rule by abolishing regional strategies and leaving local planning authorities to argue about where housing would go.

It was Labour that offered regional democracy.

 

[BobKowalski]

Our regional government was modelled on the federal German structure when it was set up in the early 80s. The plain fact is that the EU does not want to strengthen regional identity or separatist trends, as it was famously put by Jean-Claude Juncker "We do not want an EU with 95 different countries tomorrow, or the day after. We would lose control. National unity and European unity are things that go together’. The real argument for Brexit has been made from the moment we joined. A Foreign and Commonwealth Office paper - written in April 1971 and labelled FCO30/1048 – which was initially withheld under the Official Secrets Act – made it clear that the EU was preparing for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy. It also made clear that ‘Community law’ would take precedence over UK courts and that ever more power would pass away from the UK parliament to Brussels. The paper acknowledged this would lead to a ‘popular feeling of alienation from Government’ and politicians were advised ‘not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community’. It anticipated that this strategy could last ‘for this century at least’ – by which time the UK would be so subordinated to Brussels, it would be impossible to leave the EU." Looks a pretty accurate forecast.

Yeah. You’re really going to have to lay off the conspiracy, whacko nutjob shite. It’s like injecting class A drugs into your veins. Both turn your brain into mush.

 

[Vic]

Our regional government was modelled on the federal German structure when it was set up in the early 80s. The plain fact is that the EU does not want to strengthen regional identity or separatist trends. As it was famously put by Jean-Claude Juncker "We do not want an EU with 95 different countries tomorrow, or the day after. We would lose control. National unity and European unity are things that go together."( Scots please note.)

The real argument for Brexit has been made from the moment we joined. A Foreign and Commonwealth Office paper - written in April 1971 and labelled FCO30/1048 – which was initially withheld under the Official Secrets Act – made it clear that the EU was preparing for economic, monetary and fiscal union, with a common foreign and defence policy. It also made clear that ‘Community law’ would take precedence over UK courts and that ever more power would pass away from the UK parliament to Brussels. The paper acknowledged this would lead to a ‘popular feeling of alienation from Government’ and politicians were advised ‘not to exacerbate public concern by attributing unpopular measures… to the remote and unmanageable workings of the Community’. It anticipated that this strategy could last ‘for this century at least’ – by which time the UK would be so subordinated to Brussels, it would be impossible to leave the EU." Looks a pretty accurate forecast.
You seem to forget we are (and always have been) a net contributor.

Good reason to know where what we get back has gone.

Ever closer union might be one EU principle but so is subsidiarity (decisions taken at as local a level as possible).

 

[George Hannah]

Yeah. You’re really going to have to lay off the conspiracy, whacko nutjob shite. It’s like injecting class A drugs into your veins. Both turn your brain into mush.

Our discussion taking a disappointing and rather ugly turn now BK, funny how the facts have a habit of prompting abuse from you.

 

[BobKowalski]

The old lie.

Yeah. On the bright side it made Leadsom arguing the need for the Corporate tax rate cut earlier this morning look especially stupid. Not that you would necessarily notice.

Main take out for me so far in this campaign is the lack of talent, purpose or ideas on the Tory side. To be fair I don’t rate the Labour side that highly either but at least we are hearing some ideas and seem able to coordinate a coherent message.

 

[BobKowalski]

Our discussion taking a rather ugly turn now BK, funny how the facts have a habit of prompting abuse from you.

Any discussions with me will always (well ok usually) be civil and rewarding until someone starts peddling conspiracy nonsense. I don’t buy it. Never have. Never will. Don’t care which side is peddling it or what it is. Moon landings, flat earth, lizards, illuminati, aviation fuel and steel beams, whatever. You name it I ain’t buying it. If it’s on YouTube and telling me to connect the dots then I’m out. I have an aversion to bullshit, fear mongering, certifiable lunacy and anything by David Icke.

 

[mcfc1632]

Blair was very popular and had popular policies that saw us into probably the greatest decade in history until 2008.

Calling out Blair as a Tory when he fought and beat Tories by winning huge electoral victories just shows the warped shambles Labour has become.

Would I vote for Blair over the Tories today, yes. Would I vote for Corbyn, no. That sums it up.

It is currently a shambles because of the types of ideologues that have hijacked the party to feed their narrow passions - divorced from the fact that this has moulded the party into an image that is unelectable

For me - history establishes that Blair was a war criminal that committed the ultimate betrayal of taking his country to war based on outright lies. That said - I voted for Blair - I would no way vote for the current leadership

Still - they are happy that the party is becoming 'purified' - even if that means that it is destined to become only a party of protest

Utter narrow-minded vandalism to my mind - but it is what it is - they just have to be left to whine away their bitterness in their echo chambers

 

[mcfc1632]

Yes ,the sooner the Labour party realises and works for voters and families instead of members then the sooner we'll have a Labour government. Until then you can carry on with your fantasy Labour party delivering fuck all and helping nobody. Selfish twats.

​

There's always the Lib Dems.

So - just you essentially telling another Labour voter to fuck off

So why do you not simply be honest - why do you post blatant nonsense such as:​

The only one talking about purism and normal is you.

You're our very own Bluemoon Don Quixote, tilting at windmills, attacking imaginary enemies, living in a fantasy world entirely of your own making.

You are so locked into your narrow world that you cannot even remember what you have said or denied

 

[mcfc1632]

Johnson's speech to the CBI was excruciatingly embarrassing.
He obviously hadn't prepared (as per), stuttered throughout and told some stale jokes everyone had heard before to stony silence.
This is our PM for fcuks sake. He makes Trump look statesmanlike. His surname should be Yeltsin not Johnson.
Anyway never mind, Jezz followed him with a great one liner 'hoped you enjoyed the warm up act '.

Great one-liner - but unfortunately that was the peak - the rest went down pretty badly - whatever magic dust Corbyn may or maybe not have had in 2017 it is completely absent in 2019

 

[George Hannah]

Any discussions with me will always (well ok usually) be civil and rewarding until someone starts peddling conspiracy nonsense. I don’t buy it. Never have. Never will. Don’t care which side is peddling it or what it is. Moon landings, flat earth, lizards, illuminati, aviation fuel and steel beams, whatever. You name it I ain’t buying it. If it’s on YouTube and telling me to connect the dots then I’m out. I have an aversion to bullshit, fear mongering, certifiable lunacy and anything by David Icke.

I fail to see any conspiracy, Heath latterly confirmed that his deal to join was made on the basis of a private federal undertaking. The record of it is now in the public domain as referenced. The EU is also openly stalling new membership and seeking to reduce the eurozone not expand it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

So - just you essentially telling another Labour voter to fuck off

So why do you not simply be honest - why do you post blatant nonsense such as:​

You are so locked into your narrow world that you cannot even remember what you have said or denied

I'm telling you that other flavours are available.

 

[hilts]

I’m sure Johnson is adept at finding that sweet spot if little else.

I do object to being treated as an idiot. ‘Cutting taxes increases revenue’, ‘We are scrapping this tax cut to increase revenue’.

And we just swallow this shit.

They have no shame politicians that's for sure. The greedy will vote for them as per though

 

[BobKowalski]

I fail to see any conspiracy, Heath latterly confirmed that his deal to join was made on the basis of a private federal undertaking. The record of it is now in the public domain as referenced. The EU is also openly stalling new membership and seeking to reduce the eurozone not expand it.

There was no federal ‘private undertaking’ it was all out in the open. The EU is not openly stalling new membership. France is because they want some reforms first and Macron, now he is back up in the polls, doesn’t want to outflanked by Le Pen. The other 26 nations are pissed at Macron over it and rightly so but there has to be unaminity because that’s how it works.

West Balken states are bending over backwards to get membership. Ukraine is also on track. France will presumably stop stalling the West Balken states when Macron gets what he wants or judges it right for domestic politics. It’s all the usual dirty politics which is pretty much the norm for the EU and we will be in the receiving end of a lot of it in the future.

I have no interest in private assurances made in 1970 or Juncker revealing secret talks whilst in lizard costume drinking the blood of new borns or secret German plots or the EUSSR bollocks. I’ll leave that to Tory politicians and Len McCluskey to peddle that sort of Ill informed garbage.