General Election - December 12th, 2019

[dave_blue12]

I'll almost certainly be voting Labour, in spite of the fact that I'm not a supporter of Corbyn and am actually a capitalist (though I may not sound like one in what follows).

The reason for this is simple and pragmatic: chronic pain.

I'm reasonably okay right now, but eventually (within the next five years), I'll almost certainly need major surgery on a degenerative condition. I'll also possibly need it twice, not once, and will be in considerable discomfort beforehand.

Under a Tory administration I could be waiting forever to get it done.

But there's also another reason: the failure of both right wingers and previous supporters of New Labour to understand how world economic history since the late 1970's has unfolded, and the deleterious effects of decades of neoliberal economic policy on both developing and developed countries*.

They also don't even grasp that the macroeconomic policies they favour arguably helped to produce the migrancy crisis in the first place, in turn arousing those tribalistic sentiments instilled by hundreds of thousands of years of evolutionary psychology that underpin support for right-wing demagogues and the parties they represent in many parts of the globe.

Some kind of alternative to hypercapitalism is needed. My solution would be a more regulated version of the present system combined with deliberative democracy, a version of democracy that would eliminate most of the lying that presently goes on.


*Applies to me too! I didn't figure this out until recently and it took a lot of reading of specialist, economic texts before the penny dropped. But it’s there in the writings of Ha Joon Chang, Manfred Steger, Ravi Roy, David Harvey, Matthieu Ricard, and many others. For the evolutionary psychology angle, Jonathan Haidt’s The Righteous Mind is the place to start.

Sorry to hear of your health problems.

An interesting post. I'll look out the authors you suggest.

 

[mcfc1632]

Is it a fact and the truth that the official Leave campaign told us that if we left the EU we would still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border?

Answer. It's a fact they told us that. It's not the truth.

That has nothing to do with anything I have said and nothing to do with the post of mine to which you asked why I was repeating myself

More distraction - is it your only method?

 

[mcfc1632]

Wow, it's even getting a mention by being slotted into other words now.

Desperate times calls for ever more desperate methods by them

 

[journolud]

Thanks. All lies should be called out.

These cunts treat us like fools thinking they can say anything and we'll swallow it.

Except @kevin horlocks wand misrepresented what was said. Corbyn correctly said that 40% of children hadn't visited the dentist in the past year, NHS figures support that, but he didn't claim it was due to the cost, he referred to the cost for adults. There are many reasons children don't go to the dentist but mainly because they are reliant on adults to organise this for them.

 

[BobKowalski]

Both main parties are promising to increase spending but Labour's plans are on a different scale. The IFS is one of the few reliable economic commentators and this BBC interview with Paul Johnson I posted from last week made the different order of Corbyn's current proposals clear.
3 mins 14 secs in https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000b8t1/politics-live-15112019

Labour are planning to spend more. Tories will end up spending more. The Tory Brexit plan will dictate that they spend more. We know this because so far they refuse to cost it and therefore factor it in as zero cost and that self evidently is not true.

To repeat, you cannot be the party of fiscal prudence on a pledge of borrowing more and a refusal to cost your main foreign and industrial policy. Every time you try to shill this dishonest policy it will be called out.

 

[Chris in London]

You are talking of the London demographic specifically but that isn't what I am getting at, I am talking about politicians and their background and not the people of London.

Can someone like Emily Thornberry claim to know what is best for the North? She reckons so but then she is only informed by her leafy London based middle class background.

By leafy London based middle class background - I mean she is privately educated, inherits a title, sends her kids to selective schools and owns multiple properties. BUT, she is at the core of a party that pontificates and is instigating a class war against all of these.

It is the hypocritical nature of it all that really gets to people.

You are talking in cliches. Does that reflect Diane Abbott’s background? Or David Lammy’s? Can any London MP of any party know what is best for the north? I have no love for the Labour Party but as a group London’s labour MPs are as diverse a group as you will encounter in the House of Commons.

Not all of London is leafy suburbs, and not all London MPs are the same either.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Labour are planning to spend more. Tories will end up spending more. The Tory Brexit plan will dictate that they spend more. We know this because so far they refuse to cost it and therefore factor it in as zero cost and that self evidently is not true.

To repeat, you cannot be the party of fiscal prudence on a pledge of borrowing more and a refusal to cost your main foreign and industrial policy. Every time you try to shill this dishonest policy it will be called out.

Poor Prudence, another one fucked and forgotten by the fat fool.

 

[mcfc1632]

Try this:
Woman called Mavis walks into a car dealership:
Mavis: That car on the forecourt for 10k, I'll give you 9k for it.
Salesman: Sorry Madam I can't accept that but you can have it for 9.5k.
Mavis: No way I'll only pay 9.7k.
Salesman:Err...ok then.

Next day the wife's husband (let's call him BoJo) storms into the dealership.
BoJo: That car my wife offered to pay 9.7k for -no way - we're only prepared to pay the 9.5k you originally offered it for.If you don't agree I'll walk away.
Salesman: Sorry sir we had a deal.
BoJo: If you don't agree I'll never buy any more cars from you.
Salesman: Oh OK sir you can have it for £9.5k.

BoJo to his mate mcfc1632 :you see what happens when you negotiate hard with car salesmen.
mcfc1632:yeah

Salesman's boss: Did we get 9.5k for that car?
Salesman: Yeah it was only worth 9k.
Boss: Great they were going to pay 9.7k at one stage weren't they?
Salesman: Yeah they nearly gave us more than we wanted but we got our.result at the end

Fuck Len.....

You made the effort to type that??

Back in the real world - you are just denying the truth and twisting facts - no ifs no buts

 

[George Hannah]

Labour are planning to spend more. Tories will end up spending more. The Tory Brexit plan will dictate that they spend more. We know this because so far they refuse to cost it and therefore factor it in as zero cost and that self evidently is not true. To repeat, you cannot be the party of fiscal prudence on a pledge of borrowing more and a refusal to cost your main foreign and industrial policy. Every time you try to shill this dishonest policy it will be called out.

You seem to labouring under the strange misapprehension I am somehow endorsing Tory economic policies and their Brexit position - neither is the case. I am now convinced that the EU departure on offer is too damaging and that the ERG lobby has prevailed. I'll be voting in marginal Cheadle for the odious Lib Dems to stop Boris and give revoke a chance - desperate times and desperate measures. The reality is that it will be an empty gesture - the Labour Party's capture by Marxist throwbacks has rendered it unelectable and will mean we'll be out on terms no rational person would have anticipated or accepted.

 

[Len Rum]

Fuck Len.....

You made the effort to type that??

Back in the real world - you are just denying the truth and twisting facts - no ifs no buts

Wot?
U talking about the no ifs no buts regarding leaving the EU on 31st October, or the no ifs no buts about getting net immigration below 100k.
Anyway my little post was to simplify the WA outcome to it's most basic level so as to make it understandable to you.

 

[Ban-jani]

Except @kevin horlocks wand misrepresented what was said. Corbyn correctly said that 40% of children hadn't visited the dentist in the past year, NHS figures support that, but he didn't claim it was due to the cost, he referred to the cost for adults. There are many reasons children don't go to the dentist but mainly because they are reliant on adults to organise this for them.

I’ve not been for 9 years.

My teeth are white and I have no pain anywhere. Brush twice a day with an electric brush for a lengthy time and I’m certainly not paying 40 fucking quid for nothing.

 

[dave_blue12]

Except @kevin horlocks wand misrepresented what was said. Corbyn correctly said that 40% of children hadn't visited the dentist in the past year, NHS figures support that, but he didn't claim it was due to the cost, he referred to the cost for adults. There are many reasons children don't go to the dentist but mainly because they are reliant on adults to organise this for them.

Ah so is @kevin horlocks wand repeating someone elses lie or is it his own ?

Wouldn't it be great if there was a statutory 30 days in jail for every lie a politician or political party told and a further 30 days for every time the lie was repeated ?

That would soon put a stop to it and this country would be a far better place.

 

[BobKowalski]

Fuck Len.....

You made the effort to type that??

Back on the real world - you are just denying the truth and twisting facts - no ifs no buts

The tragedy and comedy of insisting that getting the EU to reopen the WA and accept a provision that they had already accepted was a ‘heroic and triumph victory for Britain’ will always be a high point of the last three years.

Looking ahead I note that the UK has done a rhetoric reset with outrage at EU Commissioner Weyland stating that the best we will get in 11 months is a bare bones deal (or as it’s more commonly known ‘Official Tory Brexit Policy’) or a crash out, the FT has an article on ‘EU inflexibility harms the EU and this will not go down well with German car makers’. David Davis has woken up and made the same point, although it may be just a reflex action as he has been making this point since 2016.

It’s quite possible that 2020 with a ‘united Britain fresh from its conquest of the EU in the battle of the WA and now set on scattering the European hordes that stand between them and world conquest’ is going to the best season ever of ‘Brexit’. Spoiler. NI will not feature in this season as it was unfortunately killed off at the end of season three.

 

[dave_blue12]

You seem to labouring under the strange misapprehension I am somehow endorsing Tory economic policies and their Brexit position - neither is the case. I am now convinced that the EU departure on offer is too damaging and that the ERG lobby has prevailed. I'll be voting in marginal Cheadle for the odious Lib Dems to stop Boris and give revoke a chance - desperate times and desperate measures. The reality is that it will be an empty gesture - the Labour Party's capture by Marxist throwbacks has rendered it unelectable and will mean we'll be out on terms no rational person would have anticipated or accepted.

I find myself agreeing with you again.

These are truly desperate times ;-)

 

[BobKowalski]

You seem to labouring under the strange misapprehension I am somehow endorsing Tory economic policies and their Brexit position - neither is the case. I am now convinced that the EU departure on offer is too damaging and that the ERG lobby has prevailed. I'll be voting in marginal Cheadle for the odious Lib Dems to stop Boris and give revoke a chance - desperate times and desperate measures. The reality is that it will be an empty gesture - the Labour Party's capture by Marxist throwbacks has rendered it unelectable and will mean we'll be out on terms no rational person would have anticipated or accepted.

Plot twist.

Clearly I wasn’t paying attention. Not sure I would call them odious but I too am voting LibDem. So does this mean...we are on the same side? Think I need a lie down and then I need to reassess my entire world view.

Seriously though. Welcome aboard :)

 

[Ancient Citizen]

And come the glorious 12th they will reap what they sow

and then...………….

blame every fucker but themselves

Actually, it's Friday the 13th, when we know ;)

 

[BobKowalski]

As I was saying about Tory Brexit Policy. No economic assessment and certainly none prior to the election. Would it be acceptable to have Labour’s nationalisation plans afforded the same absence of economic scrutiny? No. The political declaration within the WA outlines a future relationship scenario which should be costed. The impact of a dual customs policy and tariffs on trade between GB and NI should be costed. This level of dishonesty and deception is not sustainable

 

[dave_blue12]

 

[Len Rum]

Plot twist.

Clearly I wasn’t paying attention. Not sure I would call them odious but I too am voting LibDem. So does this mean...we are on the same side? Think I need a lie down and then I need to reassess my entire world view.

Seriously though. Welcome aboard :)

BK
Please please tell me you are only voting for JO SWINSON'S lib dems because you reside in a Tory / Lib Dem marginal.
Otherwise I will never ever like one of your posts again.
EVER.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

I see the Libs are pledging to spend a bit on climate change.
A piffling £100 billion.
https://www.libdems.org.uk/climate-emergency-fund
How this vast sum affects China, India and America's emissions is a little unsure, and it's not if we need to
invest in other things,but this is a climate emergency, nothing else matters.