General Election - December 12th, 2019

[dave_blue12]

We know we are going to be lied to or that information will be presented in such a way as to disguise the facts. When I see something that doesn't sound quite right I make it my business to try and find out the truth- it is patently obvious that Corbyn wouldn't have said children couldn't go to the dentist because they can't afford it so why would anyone believe that and repeat it if only to confirm their own bias.

I was very frustrated watching bbc breakfast this morning when they were interviewing young people about their voting intentions and they were moaning about not being politically educated and that no-one was telling them what tyhe stood for. Why don't they use a bit of nus and find out instead of waiting to be spoonfed information, same with the market traders and shoppers of anytown who are inevitably interviewed for soundbites as a cross section of opinions, usually spouting half truths. The truth is out there if you can be arsed looking for it.

I knew without checking that Corbyn would not have said this. Anyone with an under 18 would see it was nonsense (I have a 17 year old)
I was trying to draw him out on his lie but he seems to have lied and run.

 

[journolud]

That's the way they are rolling - a sense of desperation in the wind?

So where does this assumption come from that parents will not care enough to take their children to their FREE dental check unless it is convenient for themselves to have an appointment as well

The truths are becoming very obviously inconvenient to quite a few on here and the facts simply have to be twisted

Why the constant need for you to chip in wth comments about posters and lumping us all in as some mass coordinated movement? I have replied to @kevin horlocks wand and it's clear that we take different views. I'm not twisting anything and resent the implication. Your constant parroting of the same lines (ie inconvenient truths yadder yadder)is pretty tiresome.

As to the one point you make in your post- well that at least is a good question and I've partly addressed it in my reply. There is a need for cultrual change in respect of proactively managing our health generally, not just in respect of the dentist. Its the same culture that sees a high proprtion of children starting school without basic skills they should have learnt at home and which sees an attitude of entitlement in all ages in respect of the NHS fixing the sort of problems that could be preventable.

Would you agree that it would be good if 100% of chidren attended regular dental check ups and if so what measures would you like to see introduced to encourage that?

Would you also think it a good thing to prevent higher health bills in future by doing something now at a cost to encourage early detection? For example free dental check ups?

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/dental-check-ups/

https://www.deltadentalins.com/oral_health/dentists-detect.html

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

We are both seeing what we want to see. Corbyn is quoted as saying in the press release that 40% of children don't go to the dentist- he is correctly stating a fact based on NHS figures (although the most recent figures I could find were from a couple of years ago and suggested the figure was marginally higher). He could add "despite it being free" but this doesn't add anything to the narrative, we already k now its free for children.

No disrespect to you because I don't think you are trying to be untruthful but I think you are taking a very literal view. Adults are put off by the cost, some of those adults might well be feckless and not interested in their childs welfare, some of them might just be doing their best to juggle. The move towards free dental check ups if it happens isn't just about money and perhaps here labour could have done more to push the change of culture needed, not just in respect of dental care but in being proactive in managing our health generally. The NHS might not be quite so fucked then.

As for your last sentence, it lacks empathy and is too much of a generalisation.

People can make their own minds up about the press release:

https://labour.org.uk/press/labour-to-offer-free-dental-check-ups-for-all/

Yep indeed

anyway the policy in itself isn’t that bad

 

[Chippy_boy]

The issue we have is that capitalism is not working as expected anymore. Profits are not turning into investment ...

I'm sorry but you seem perhaps to be basing your very subjective judgements off the back of 10 years of restrained - severely restrained - public spending and putting 2 and 2 together and get 5.3

Where's your evidence for ANY of the above? Investment in the water industry - for example - is at an all time high. We've never invested more, whether that be under private or public ownership. The investment pouring into areas like robotization, AI, machine-learning etc is simply enormous. All the automotive manufacturers are investing billions in electric cars.

I think your views are simply tainted by the fact that we've been through a tough 10 year period on the back of the 2008 crash, simple as that.

 

[jonmcity]

I'm sorry but you seem perhaps to be basing your very subjective judgements off the back of 10 years of restrained - severely restrained - public spending and putting 2 and 2 together and get 5.3

Where's your evidence for ANY of the above? Investment in the water industry - for example - is at an all time high. We've never invested more, whether that be under private or public ownership. The investment pouring into areas like robotization, AI, machine-learning etc is simply enormous. All the automotive manufacturers are investing billions in electric cars.

I think your views are simply tainted by the fact that we've been through a tough 10 year period on the back of the 2008 crash, simple as that.

I was reflecting on an article in the financial times. "Does capitalism need saving from itself?"

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/b35342fe-cda4-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

In continental Europe or Japan, which have long embraced a more stakeholder-focused model of capitalism, Lipton’s idea might not have seemed so controversial. Yet in the US his paper provoked trenchant attacks from other lawyers, academics and investors. “Nobody wanted to listen,” Lipton chuckles over the Rockefeller silverware.

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/b35342fe-cda4-11e9-99a4-b5ded7a7fe3f

Marty Lipton does not have the look of an American revolutionary. At the age of 88, he is seldom seen without a carefully pressed suit and dapper tie. His resume reeks of Wall Street power. In 1965 he co-founded Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz, one of the most prestigious and lucrative American corporate law groups.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Behind his buffoonery however, Boris espouses a set of core beliefs and principles which I broadly agree with. He's no hard-liner, he's a moderate Tory who believes in a pro-business agenda, low(ish) taxation and decent public services. Whereas Corbyn is a romantic, idealistic fool who believes in a state-run everything for the benefit of everybody and yet who refuses to accept the abject failure of this broken ideology everywhere it's ever been tried. We do not want him experimenting with, and ruining our economy by way of final proof, thank-you very much.

Who might well be unseated on December 12th!!

 

[Chippy_boy]

I was reflecting on an article in the financial times. "Does capitalism need saving from itself?"

Nope.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Who might well be unseated on December 12th!!

Who? Boris? Or Comrade Corbyn? Both are possible.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Who? Boris? Or Comrade Corbyn? Both are possible.

They might both not be leaders of their respective parties come December 13th but only BJ might not be an MP.

 

[inbetween]

I'm sorry but you seem perhaps to be basing your very subjective judgements off the back of 10 years of restrained - severely restrained - public spending and putting 2 and 2 together and get 5.3

Where's your evidence for ANY of the above? Investment in the water industry - for example - is at an all time high. We've never invested more, whether that be under private or public ownership. The investment pouring into areas like robotization, AI, machine-learning etc is simply enormous. All the automotive manufacturers are investing billions in electric cars.

I think your views are simply tainted by the fact that we've been through a tough 10 year period on the back of the 2008 crash, simple as that.

A lot of those arguments also fall on globalisation and the change we are seeing in manufacturing type jobs from the lower skilled end to the higher skilled end.

My best example is I went on a work 'study' years ago to a truck manufacturing company near me. The company once upon a time had 15,000+ workers and they now have less than 1000.

Anyone would conclude from there that truck manufacturing is dying. The fact though is the company makes 10x more trucks than they did 20 years ago but with 90% less staff.

Of those left, only a tiny proportion work in manufacturing and the rest are highly skilled people who design the trucks and support them etc.

The unfortunate elephant in the room is over that time where did the 14000 made redundant go?

 

[mcfc1632]

The poor man's.....

I do find it amusing and insightful that you (and others) just have to post something - even when you have nothing to say - It must be some sort of deflection approach.

Here we have an example of a serious issue for the Labour party as it bleeds the support of 'normal' and long-established voters, but...…..

Your need is to avoid facing the inconvenient truth and just post nothing or some nonsense and hope the issue goes away - proper head in the sand stuff

I guess that @Ancient Citizen was close to the mark that come the 13th and Corbyn and the band of purists look around to see who they have attracted to be with them - they will see:

 

[Len Rum]

I do. However for the sake of transparency I usually vote LibDem. Labour is not a factor although I did vote for ‘Red Ed’ in 2015. An election where we tragically blundered and are still paying the price for.

Even though he was a 'pinko' Tory, 'Red Ed' blew that election.
In some parallel universe people are gearing up for the 2020 election, the referendum of course never happened and we're still in the EU, the nation is reasonably at ease with itself and the young charismatic leader of the opposition Jo Johnson looks set to take over from the beleaguered Red Ed who allowed borrowing to rise with the national debt hitting 1.6tn ( 0.2 tn lower than it is now).
If only.

 

[mcfc1632]

My take on this is that Labour are an absolute disgrace to be in the position they are.
I say this as a labour supporter of over 30 years.

I am of the opinion that the job of Boris in tonight's debate is to say to the electorate look at our record while we have been in power, look at how we have improved the lives of the British people, look at how we have improved services, look at the trust we have built up over the years.

A sitting government should be more about their record rather than what they propose to do going forward.

It is damning of the labour party that they are unlikely to even mount a serious challenge to the Tories after the total clusterfuck of austerity, Brexit and the collapse of social services and the NHS.

If labour do fail then they need a change of leadership, i'm not against Corbyn as such but he appears to be the single most divisive factor in the labour parties future.

They need a young dynamic leader in my opinion.

You come at it slightly differently but it is a similar theme to many of us traditional Labour voters

You have been voting Labour for 30 years and are yet another supporter frustrated by where the party finds itself going into this election

If the 12th goes as I suspect/expect it will some people need to have a long look in the mirror - because the next decade of Tory dominance will be squarely down to the left-wing purists that have made the party unelectable - and who seemingly will not relent until that process is irreversible

 

[Len Rum]

Aaron Banks twitter a/c appears to have been hacked.
Details all over twitter.
Looks very tasty already.
Could this and not Jennifer Acuri be the smoking gun?

 

[mcfc1632]

The LBC Facebook page is a long way from remain or labour friendly , I have only ever listened to the station a handful of times and found it quite right wing leaning if anything ? tbh I could point you to several web pages that claim the total opposite of the " labour heading for oblivion " mantra that seems popular with some on here ....the proof of the pudding as they say ? . The same BS from right wing media was spun in 2017 and of course if not for a few Ulster bigots saving her Arse , may would not have stayed in power when a landslide win was predicted for her weeks earlier !! One last thing ...was out with a couple of "our boys " on Saturday who were canvassing for labour in Altrincham that very morning , they told me that 99 per cent of feedback they got from locals was very positive towards Corbyn and labour ? You pays your money ......

It is all about personal opinions and I respect your right to hold yours - and you should be tolerant of myself holding mine.

All you have done is - like fumle - distract from what should be a deeply concerning issue for all LP supporters - and you focus on the source of the reporting rather than the detail of the content.

Frankly - whenever I tune in LBC seems to have been the goto place for all Remain supporters and anti-Tory views - so I have no idea how you can make your initial comment - and if you can point to "....several web pages that claim the total opposite of the " labour heading for oblivion "...." I suggest that they must be wholly biased

But you are right - we will see what occurs on the 12th

But back to the substance of my post rather than the deflection - are you not concerned by that report?

 

[The perfect fumble]

I do find it amusing and insightful that you (and others) just have to post something - even when you have nothing to say - It must be some sort of deflection approach.

Here we have an example of a serious issue for the Labour party as it bleeds the support of 'normal' and long-established voters, but...…..

Your need is to avoid facing the inconvenient truth and just post nothing or some nonsense and hope the issue goes away - proper head in the sand stuff

I guess that @Ancient Citizen was close to the mark that come the 13th and Corbyn and the band of purists look around to see who they have attracted to be with them - they will see:

For fuck sake! Change the record....

 

[Mike D]

Aaron Banks Twitter account has been hacked lots of juicy private messages being shared right now, like the pact agreed between his pal Farage and Johnson. The Cambridge Analitica band is back together under a new banner currently working with the Republicans, Leave UK is back again under a new banner. Lots and leaks and probably lots more to come (sorry no pictures anyone is on FB The Daily Politik is drip feeding them out right now.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Aaron Banks twitter a/c appears to have been hacked.
Details all over twitter.
Looks very tasty already.
Could this and not Jennifer Acuri be the smoking gun?

Lovely isn't it. Leave, Tories, journalists all up to their necks in corruption.

Won't change a fucking thing, mind.

 

[Scottyboi]

Lovely isn't it. Leave, Tories, journalists all up to their necks in corruption.

Won't change a fucking thing, mind.

Seen the tweets about hillsborough? shocking! and the one about good jews bad jews and then george soros.

 

[jay_mcfc]

Seen the tweets about hillsborough? shocking! and the one about good jews bad jews and then george soros.

Unbelievable. But yeah, Jeremy Corbyn.