General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Cheesy]

Ahhhh the old 'dividend' trick..... for those that aren't aware this is where the shareholders of a business award themselves a dividend every few months rather than declare it as wages.Thus avoiding having to pay income tax and Class 2 NIC's .....

Clueless.

A sole shareholding director of a Ltd Company paying themselves around the average annual income will currently be paying around £1700 less in tax than someone on PAYE.

A small incentive for those willing to take the risk of forming their own Company in the hope of making a living and maybe providing others with a way of making their own living too.

Oh, and personally I pay voluntary NI contributions (as many do) as I'd quite like a (nearly) full state pension when I retire.

 

[Vic]

By the way I voted to stay.
But that's irrelevant now people voted to leave.
So fucking leave.

No matter that none of the main advocates of Leave now pretend it will do anything other than badly damage the economy? (Ignoring Johnson's nonsense about unleashing our potential.)

Seriously - if everyone who voted Remain could get past this "we voted once for this stupid idea; we must abide by the people's choice" then Remain would clearly win a new referendum.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Great Grimsby Poll is interesting
https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/...est-poll-grimsby-general-election-3564637.amp

A Labour seat for 74 years, and they're miles behind in the polls, 70% voted to leave in Grimsby, it looks like
the free everything for ever bribe isn't trumping Brexit.
Because, desperate as Labour are to try and make it about everything but Brexit, it looks like it is.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

No matter that none of the main advocates of Leave now pretend it will do anything other than badly damage the economy? (Ignoring Johnson's nonsense about unleashing our potential.)

Seriously - if everyone who voted Remain could get past this "we voted once for this stupid idea; we must abide by the people's choice" then Remain would clearly win a new referendum.

Labour are now remain, libs are remain, Greens are remain.
Your crackpot theory dictates that the most powerful of these should be flying in the polls, which one is?

 

[Bluesince1979]

Im torn on who to vote for but in my constituency it doesn't matter. My vote is a free one, or a waste of time, depending on how you look at it.

what i actually hope for is a big majority for either party so things can be pushed through rather than this utter limbo weve been in the past few years.

i predict a tory landslide.

 

[lancs blue]

Ahhhh the old 'dividend' trick..... for those that aren't aware this is where the shareholders of a business award themselves a dividend every few months rather than declare it as wages.Thus avoiding having to pay income tax and Class 2 NIC's .....

Directors pay Class 1 NI and employers NI on their salary above £8,632 but not on dividends. Dividends are taxed but at a lower rate than PAYE.

If a limited company's turnover falls entirely under the IR35 legislation (mostly IT contractors) such companies are not allowed to declare dividends.

 

[Chris in London]

Directors pay Class 1 NI and employers NI on their salary above £8,632 but not on dividends. Dividends are taxed but at a lower rate than PAYE.

If a limited company's turnover falls entirely under the IR35 legislation (mostly IT contractors) such companies are not allowed to declare dividends.

Which is why many of them take home a salary of £8632 pa and draw the rest of their money as dividends

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Which is why many of them take home a salary of £8632 pa and draw the rest of their money as dividends

you know dividends are declares on an after tax basis don’t you?

Ie the company has to pay corporation tax on its profits first and then dividends after.

the reason the rate is lower is to avoid the concept of double taxation otherwise they would be paying tax twice on the same amount.

It’s all legal.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Directors pay Class 1 NI and employers NI on their salary above £8,632 but not on dividends. Dividends are taxed but at a lower rate than PAYE.

If a limited company's turnover falls entirely under the IR35 legislation (mostly IT contractors) such companies are not allowed to declare dividends.

HMRC are extending the range of IR35 in April too. Going to catch more trades in the net, sadly.

 

[Chris in London]

you know dividends are declares on an after tax basis don’t you?

Ie the company has to pay corporation tax on its profits first and then dividends after.

the reason the rate is lower is to avoid the concept of double taxation otherwise they would be paying tax twice on the same amount.

It’s all legal.

Yes.

And the tens of thousands of SME owners who pay themselves a salary at the tax/NI threshold and take the rest of their remuneration via dividends have made a judgment that the overall tax take if they go fully PAYE is greater than the combination of corporation tax and tax on dividends. (Well, their accountants have.) That’s why they do it.

The question isn’t whether it’s illegal, obviously it isn’t. The question is whether it results in an overall tax saving, obviously it does.

That, as I say, is why they do it.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Yes.

And the tens of thousands of SME owners who pay themselves a salary at the tax/NI threshold and take the rest of their remuneration via dividends have made a judgment that the overall tax take if they go fully PAYE is greater than the combination of corporation tax and tax on dividends. (Well, their accountants have.) That’s why they do it.

The question isn’t whether it’s illegal, obviously it isn’t. The question is whether it results in an overall tax saving, obviously it does.

That, as I say, is why they do it.

No the primary reason they do it is to avoid unlimited liability .

why are the lefties on here so worried about small self employed business owners doing something legal, surely the focus should be those who use complex global tax schemes to shelter profits rather than bob the plumber . No wonder the working class are deserting labour .

 

[Chris in London]

No the primary reason they do it is to avoid unlimited liability .

why are the lefties on here so worried about small self employed business owners doing something legal, surely the focus should be those who use complex global tax schemes to shelter profits rather than bob the plumber . No wonder the working class are deserting labour .

No, that’s why they set up a limited company in the first place. What we are discussing is how, having done that, they extract money in the most tax efficient manner. The answer, for lots, is they pay themselves an artificially low salary and extract further remuneration by payment of dividends.

You really are struggling with this, aren’t you?

 

[hgblue]

No matter that none of the main advocates of Leave now pretend it will do anything other than badly damage the economy? (Ignoring Johnson's nonsense about unleashing our potential.)

Seriously - if everyone who voted Remain could get past this "we voted once for this stupid idea; we must abide by the people's choice" then Remain would clearly win a new referendum.

As soon as Remainers decided that they could or should try to overturn the result of a democratic decision of the British people a day of reckoning was coming. Not long to wait now folks.

 

[goatersnipple]

No matter that none of the main advocates of Leave now pretend it will do anything other than badly damage the economy? (Ignoring Johnson's nonsense about unleashing our potential.)

Seriously - if everyone who voted Remain could get past this "we voted once for this stupid idea; we must abide by the people's choice" then Remain would clearly win a new referendum.

Maybe.
But how can you possibly have another vote.
If someone doesn't agree with the result of that do we vote again

 

[inbetween]

No the primary reason they do it is to avoid unlimited liability .

why are the lefties on here so worried about small self employed business owners doing something legal, surely the focus should be those who use complex global tax schemes to shelter profits rather than bob the plumber . No wonder the working class are deserting labour .

Everytime I goto my local chinese they say they only accept cash, I wonder why?

Tax dodging capitalist scum.....

 

[BobKowalski]

Maybe.
But how can you possibly have another vote.
If someone doesn't agree with the result of that do we vote again

Yep. Usually every four to five years. Although lately it’s been every couple of years. I’m hoping we will eventually get to make it an annual event.

 

[goatersnipple]

Yep. Usually every four to five years. Although lately it’s been every couple of years. I’m hoping we will eventually get to make it an annual event.

They normally carry out what people voted for though dont they.
Clever dick

 

[BobKowalski]

They normally carry out what people voted for though dont they.
Clever dick

Sometimes. Not always. If a Govt is elected on a major policy it has five years to implement it. If it can’t it doesn’t get to say ‘hang in a minute can we have a year or two extra as it turned more difficult that we thought’. If they want more time they have to submit themselves and their progress to a fresh vote.

 

[Coatigan]

Did you tell them you were going to vote Green, just to confuse them? You could have doubled the Green vote.

I would dare guess, that if we had PR, significantly more people vote for the Greens. Perhaps.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

Sometimes. Not always. If a Govt is elected on a major policy it has five years to implement it. If it can’t it doesn’t get to say ‘hang in a minute can we have a year or two extra as it turned more difficult that we thought’. If they want more time they have to submit themselves and their progress to a fresh vote.

When said government gets elected the stipulation that 'It's a once in a lifetime' vote, thereby ensuring said government
stays in forever, isn't part of the election process.