General Election - December 12th, 2019

Who will you vote for in the 2019 General Election?

  • Conservative

    Votes: 160 30.9%
  • Labour

    Votes: 230 44.4%
  • Liberal Democrats

    Votes: 59 11.4%
  • Green Party

    Votes: 13 2.5%
  • Brexit Party

    Votes: 28 5.4%
  • Plaid Cymru/SNP

    Votes: 7 1.4%
  • Other

    Votes: 21 4.1%

  • Total voters
    518
The lefts self righteousness is repellent.

From one of today's papers and sums it up perfectly in my opinion.
 
Anyone who announced they were a leave voter/supporter were quickly expunged from the twitterverse, silenced, denounced as racists and once the purge was complete, Twitter was left with only like-minded remoaners.

No wonder they believe it to be true.
Now where is that echo chamber gif....

There seems to be an air of desperation and despondency amongst the 'usual suspects' today - they seem to be desperately seeking to cling to their 541 page smoking water pistol and put out of their minds the evidence of that MRP poll yesterday.

Given the volume of people interviewed and extent of the analysis I suggest that they would be all over this thread had the results been 'different'

It seems that the LP and its supporters would have been well served to heed the council and warnings of many on here that have been past LP voters....

1. Stop fucking off the very many voters that might want to vote for you but cannot in your current guise

2. Have a word with the ideologues that make up your cult - sorry membership - nowadays who just seem to want to drive the party into some purist hole where it will never recover from

oh and:

3. Ignore your London and SE luvvies advice about the mood of the majority of people on Brexit - you needed to be decisive and back the will expressed by the voters in the Labour constituencies.
 
Now where is that echo chamber gif....

There seems to be an air of desperation and despondency amongst the 'usual suspects' today - they seem to be desperately seeking to cling to their 541 page smoking water pistol and put out of their minds the evidence of that MRP poll yesterday.

Given the volume of people interviewed and extent of the analysis I suggest that they would be all over this thread had the results been 'different'

It seems that the LP and its supporters would have been well served to heed the council and warnings of many on here that have been past LP voters....

1. Stop fucking off the very many voters that might want to vote for you but cannot in your current guise

2. Have a word with the ideologues that make up your cult - sorry membership - nowadays who just seem to want to drive the party into some purist hole where it will never recover from

oh and:

3. Ignore your London and SE luvvies advice about the mood of the majority of people on Brexit - you needed to be decisive and back the will expressed by the voters in the Labour constituencies.

This, this and more this.
 
dismiss the document? The document exists that’s not in doubt.

what is in doubt ( or rather complete bullshit) is the claims that labour made that this document proves that we will pay to see a gp, pay to give birth, pay 5 times more from cancer drugs , we have sold the nhs to the states

it doesn’t say any of those things. It’s a complete lie. They waived this 500 page document around like they had discovered they had proof thinking people would not read it. Funnily enough people and journalists do.

I would be very concerned if the Tories had agreed to do any of the above and that would be an issue for me and many other voters . So please point to the page and paragraph of the document that confirms the Tories have done any of the above points.

Funny cos I work in the NHS I already know that it has been mooted whether paying to see the GP is workable. Somewhere between £15-£25 under the guise of penalty for missing an appointment., which will then become the norm if it is 'successful'.

This is how they get you; slowly slowly catchy monkey.

You'd be foolish to ignore years of Tory premise.
 
Then we should have had a binding referendum rather than a General Election
That is where Labour have gotten it so wrong - the LibDems to.

We pro-Leave supporters did not want a referendum - we feel that would likely lead to a Remain vote - not certain - but likely IMO

No - our chance to achieving Brexit lay in a GE and this has come about simply because Labour and the LibDems could not find the way to work together

I have been saying for months that if we end up with a No-Deal Brexit history will show that Corbyn shoulders a lot of the blame.

Swinson must be also regretting her decision as well - a pair of chancers
 
Funny cos I work in the NHS I already know that it has been mooted whether paying to see the GP is workable. Somewhere between £15-£25 under the guise of penalty for missing an appointment., which will then become the norm if it is 'successful'.

This is how they get you; slowly slowly catchy monkey.

You'd be foolish to ignore years of Tory premise.

Absolute bullshit, pure and simple.

Charging for missed appointment, yes perhaps and under some circumstances (not all) quite right too. Charging for seeing your GP? Absolute bollocks. "Free at the point of use" is a fundamental principle which NO-ONE is contemplating changing. No-one.

Anyone suggesting otherwise is mistaken, an idiot, or lying.
 
Has anyone seen or heard of jo Swinson since the leadership debate, nearly a week now and not a peep.
Think she's gone down the pub.

2.48611863.jpg
 
Not sure if anyone other than extreme lefties or RWNJs can disagree with the following article from the FT.
Sums up the shit we're all in.

"You might say the lunatics are running the asylum. The pattern of Europe’s elections has seen old elites buffeted and battered by populist insurgents. In the UK’s case, the extremists have taken charge of the governing parties. The choice at the coming election is between the pinched English nationalism of Boris Johnson’s Conservatives and the far-left socialism of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party.

Received wisdom is that this will be a hinge election — one of those moments that sets a nation’s course for a generation. Anyone who cares about Britain’s future will sincerely hope that it is otherwise. The campaign has marked out a contest between parties peddling competing fantasies and falsehoods. The sane answer as to which of the two leaders counts as fit for the office of prime minister is neither of the above.

Mr Johnson’s career rests on casual mendacity. After ousting Theresa May a few months ago he made one solemn pledge. There could be no ifs or buts, he said. No excuses. Come what may, Britain would leave the EU on October 31. Many remarked at the time that, given the parliamentary arithmetic, this was a hostage to fortune. Mr Johnson’s retort was that he would “die in a ditch” rather than renege. The deadline has passed and Britain is still a member of the EU.

This breach of trust looks trivial when set against his latest pronouncements. Brexit represents the most fundamental upheaval in the life of the nation since the dissolution of empire. For Mr Johnson it is no more than an “oven-ready” loaf of bread. All that is required is that voters supply him a parliamentary majority to “pop it in the microwave”. By the end of January, a “free” Britain will be heading for the sunlit uplands of life beyond Brexit.

In reality, of course, signing off on the withdrawal agreement with the EU27 would settle nothing beyond the terms of the divorce. The shape of the future relationship, critical to prosperity, will depend on a second set of negotiations. The Treasury’s calculations show even the most favourable outcome carries a heavy cost in lost growth, investment and jobs. Mr Johnson has ordered the figures be kept secret.

To map a path back into No 10 the prime minister has sought to outflank Nigel Farage’s Brexit party on the nationalist far-right. So the Tory manifesto fixes December 31 2020 as the final date for completion of a trade deal with Brussels. This new deadline repeats the elementary mistake made by Mrs May when she rushed to open Article 50 negotiations. It invites the EU27 to run down the clock. Mr Johnson will be left with the option of a bare-bones accord that excludes Britain’s service industries, or of crashing out without a deal.

In any other circumstances one would say that the voters were far too sensible to fall for such a charlatan. Mr Johnson, though, has powerful allies. The first is a national mood of exhaustion and irritation. His ever repeated promise to “get Brexit done” is as infantilising as it is mendacious, but it taps into the frustration among those who backed Leave in the 2016 referendum.

Mr Johnson’s trump card, however, is Mr Corbyn. Labour’s economic prospectus, with its promises of lavish spending increases on any public service you care to think of, punitive taxes on the rich and nationalisation of state utilities does strike a populist chord. After a decade of Tory austerity, who wouldn’t vote for the free, superfast broadband promised for every household in the land? And it surely makes sense to invest in decaying infrastructure when interest rates are at zero.

Taken together, however, the Labour proposals amount to a package as fanciful Mr Johnson’s half-baked Brexit. Britain operates in an open international economy. Governments cannot expect global markets and businesses to be indifferent to swingeing increases in tax and the state appropriation of private businesses. The inescapable implication of Mr Corbyn’s plan is a siege economy buttressed by capital and import controls. Britain is not ready for a crackpot experiment of socialism in one country.

Against all the odds, Mr Johnson wins on the character question. The latest polling from Ipsos Mori shows the prime minister with a personal rating of minus 14 per cent (47 per cent take an unfavourable view and 33 per cent approve). At any other time that would be enough to consign him to permanent opposition. But Mr Corbyn wins the unpopularity stakes by some margin with a rating of minus 35 per cent (59 per cent versus 24 per cent).

On one level this is probably no more than a cultural preference for duplicitous braggadocio over self-regarding piety. But it also speaks to the hypocrisy of a politician who has allowed anti-Semitism to flourish among his far-left supporters and whose instincts in foreign policy are always to side with authoritarian regimes against the west. A self-styled champion of the poor and oppressed, Mr Corbyn is also an apologist for Russia’s Vladimir Putin and an unabashed admirer of repressive regimes in Cuba and Venezuela. The voters are not stupid.

Unsurprisingly, the polls show Mr Johnson to be well ahead, helped also by the failure of the Liberal Democrats to mount an effective campaign from the pro-European political centre ground. Nothing is decided, though, until the votes are cast on 12 December. The hope of those who wish Britain well must be that this remains the case after the votes have been counted."
 
Last edited:
That is where Labour have gotten it so wrong - the LibDems to.

We pro-Leave supporters did not want a referendum - we feel that would likely lead to a Remain vote - not certain - but likely IMO

No - our chance to achieving Brexit lay in a GE and this has come about simply because Labour and the LibDems could not find the way to work together

I have been saying for months that if we end up with a No-Deal Brexit history will show that Corbyn shoulders a lot of the blame.

Swinson must be also regretting her decision as well - a pair of chancers

Corbyn will rightly shoulder the blame for making Labour un-electable. But there is a massive leap to pin brexit on him.

Whatever comes of brexit the blame will reside 100% with the tories who promoted it and ultimately shifted the Tory party in to UKIP territory and the moste extreme version of it to hammer it home despite the overwhelming evidence that it would be a disaster.

Trying to attach blame on those who did a half arsed job in stopping it is a bit of a stretch.
 
Did you not profess the out of control aging process?
I mean if social care is going down the pan, what's the solution for you?
No, the idea is to get it working properly - the population's changing age profile is a challenge throughout western Europe but is being met more successfully in several comparable countries through a combination of progressive taxation and charging to improve services.
 
Not sure if anyone other than extreme lefties or RWNJs can disagree with the following article from the FT.
Sums up the shit we're all in.

"You might say the lunatics are running the asylum. The pattern of Europe’s elections has seen old elites buffeted and battered by populist insurgents. In the UK’s case, the extremists have taken charge of the governing parties. The choice at the coming election is between the pinched English nationalism of Boris Johnson’s Conservatives and the far-left socialism of Jeremy Corbyn’s Labour party. Received wisdom is that this will be a hinge election — one of those moments that sets a nation’s course for a generation. Anyone who cares about Britain’s future will sincerely hope that it is otherwise. The campaign has marked out a contest between parties peddling competing fantasies and falsehoods. The sane answer as to which of the two leaders counts as fit for the office of prime minister is neither of the above. Mr Johnson’s career rests on casual mendacity. After ousting Theresa May a few months ago he made one solemn pledge. There could be no ifs or buts, he said. No excuses. Come what may, Britain would leave the EU on October 31. Many remarked at the time that, given the parliamentary arithmetic, this was a hostage to fortune. Mr Johnson’s retort was that he would “die in a ditch” rather than renege. The deadline has passed and Britain is still a member of the EU. This breach of trust looks trivial when set against his latest pronouncements. Brexit represents the most fundamental upheaval in the life of the nation since the dissolution of empire. For Mr Johnson it is no more than an “oven-ready” loaf of bread. All that is required is that voters supply him a parliamentary majority to “pop it in the microwave”. By the end of January, a “free” Britain will be heading for the sunlit uplands of life beyond Brexit. In reality, of course, signing off on the withdrawal agreement with the EU27 would settle nothing beyond the terms of the divorce. The shape of the future relationship, critical to prosperity, will depend on a second set of negotiations. The Treasury’s calculations show even the most favourable outcome carries a heavy cost in lost growth, investment and jobs. Mr Johnson has ordered the figures be kept secret. To map a path back into No 10 the prime minister has sought to outflank Nigel Farage’s Brexit party on the nationalist far-right. So the Tory manifesto fixes December 31 2020 as the final date for completion of a trade deal with Brussels. This new deadline repeats the elementary mistake made by Mrs May when she rushed to open Article 50 negotiations. It invites the EU27 to run down the clock. Mr Johnson will be left with the option of a bare-bones accord that excludes Britain’s service industries, or of crashing out without a deal. In any other circumstances one would say that the voters were far too sensible to fall for such a charlatan. Mr Johnson, though, has powerful allies. The first is a national mood of exhaustion and irritation. His ever repeated promise to “get Brexit done” is as infantilising as it is mendacious, but it taps into the frustration among those who backed Leave in the 2016 referendum. Mr Johnson’s trump card, however, is Mr Corbyn. Labour’s economic prospectus, with its promises of lavish spending increases on any public service you care to think of, punitive taxes on the rich and nationalisation of state utilities does strike a populist chord. After a decade of Tory austerity, who wouldn’t vote for the free, superfast broadband promised for every household in the land? And it surely makes sense to invest in decaying infrastructure when interest rates are at zero. Taken together, however, the Labour proposals amount to a package as fanciful Mr Johnson’s half-baked Brexit. Britain operates in an open international economy. Governments cannot expect global markets and businesses to be indifferent to swingeing increases in tax and the state appropriation of private businesses. The inescapable implication of Mr Corbyn’s plan is a siege economy buttressed by capital and import controls. Britain is not ready for a crackpot experiment of socialism in one country. Against all the odds, Mr Johnson wins on the character question. The latest polling from Ipsos Mori shows the prime minister with a personal rating of minus 14 per cent (47 per cent take an unfavourable view and 33 per cent approve). At any other time that would be enough to consign him to permanent opposition. But Mr Corbyn wins the unpopularity stakes by some margin with a rating of minus 35 per cent (59 per cent versus 24 per cent). On one level this is probably no more than a cultural preference for duplicitous braggadocio over self-regarding piety. But it also speaks to the hypocrisy of a politician who has allowed anti-Semitism to flourish among his far-left supporters and whose instincts in foreign policy are always to side with authoritarian regimes against the west. A self-styled champion of the poor and oppressed, Mr Corbyn is also an apologist for Russia’s Vladimir Putin and an unabashed admirer of repressive regimes in Cuba and Venezuela. The voters are not stupid. Unsurprisingly, the polls show Mr Johnson to be well ahead, helped also by the failure of the Liberal Democrats to mount an effective campaign from the pro-European political centre ground. Nothing is decided, though, until the votes are cast on 12 December. The hope of those who wish Britain well must be that this remains the case after the votes have been counted."
a few minutes spent editing this block of text to match the original would help
 
Only idiot feminists try and relate 'history' to 'his story', it's etymology is from the Greek 'historia' meaning learning or knowing by inquiry and then the French version of that 'histoire' - narrative of past events, account, tale, story.

Fuck all to do with HIS or HERS.



Yeah pretty evil and somewhat impressive how a small maritime nation had 1/3rd of the land under their rule for so long without any sort of large army. But I don't think it was gloried at school.

I'm WELL aware of the origin of the word, thanks.

But, sometimes the simplest phonetics gets one to understand that 'history' is never really written by the vanquished with a loud enough backing to be registered by anyone else.

As for the rest of it? Napoleon was around 5ft 5ins with the world at his feet. Also 'impressive', nonetheless fooking barbaric in 'conquest'. That said, conquests were sanitised at school, types of conquest skipped over with no mention of what happened to the fallen after and I was conscience of that aspect, if I'm honest, highlighted by my skin tone, obviously.

It would be nice for young people to know the whole cost of wars.
 
270.000 trees a day planted is the new promise.

Its fucking ridiculous the things they are focusing on to try and win this election when it was always about brexit.

I think they will be using the Labour 5.2 formula. Whatever any other party promises, which will be bollocks anyhow, Labour will automatically offer 5.2 times that figure. I think the great political thinkers of our time call it the plebs will go wow that’s ace phenomenon.

Unfortunately for Corbyn he lost the last page of the report whilst moving from a nice comfortable seat on a train to the floor for a PR stunt. It quite rightly stated plebs were already in the bag it was the self interested wankers he needed to appease.

Quite ironic one of the greatest appeasers of our time will lose from not appeasing to the right sort of people.
 
Why is it damaging to the UK?

Damaging to the government of the day, maybe.

Why should it be labelled "secret"?

Are you really happy that any government should be allowed to suppress evidence that it is lying over a vital election issue?

Is the NHS / drug pricing on the US trade talk table or not? Either Johnson or Trump is lying.

No no, I don't think you understand that the content does not matter. It is considered sensitive because it has been marked as sensitive. It is sensitive to foreign nationals because it has been marked as sensitive to release to foreign nationals.

Whoever wrote it decided it was sensitive so it is and that is how classifications work and any release can be deemed as a breach of official secrets.

To say otherwise is irrelevant unless you are advocating that breaking the law is okay depending on your political views on each and every document?

Corbyn shouldn't be releasing and distributing protectively marked documents because it is illegal to do so. Simple.
 
Been there, done it, got the result, peoples vote and whatever else you want to call it.

And we also had a general election following the referendum. Johnson called the election as, in my opinion, he would lose a referendum but would win a General Election.

Its all irrelevant now anyway, Johnson will in all likelihood win, Corbyn will resign and then in about 9 months time we can all start talking about "no deal" on trade talks instead.
 

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