Etihad Campus, Stadium and Collar Site Development Thread

[HelloCity]

Does anyone sell out CL group games, apart from the smaller grounds or vs "big" teams?

Liverpool, Chelsea, United (when in it...).

Spurs only sold out for Bayern Munich tbf.

 

[supercity88]

That’s nonsensical in my opinion, even though I do believe you. Cough!

The CL games aren’t our bread and butter games. That’s the PL games, regardless of what the club thinks.

To delay expanding the NS, and only to do it when CL games at the Etihad sell out on a regular basis is very shortsighted by the club in my opinion.

In fact, the club might as well put the NS expansion on hold for good in that case, as we will never sell out CL group stage games.

Until we win the CL and the fans finally take to it, we will never sell out CL games, bar the later knockout stages against the big European cartel clubs and ‘European Royalty’. ;-)

This season’s CL group stages have been pretty dreadful, with poor opposition, average team performances, and dreadful atmospheres.

I appreciate where the club is coming from with this. They probably don’t want 6000 empty seats in the NS for CL matches. But in the same breath, we could fill 6000 seats for PL games. It’s a trade off.

We all know why Liverpool. United and Chelsea sell out their CL matches. It’s because they’ve won the CL and their fans have an affinity for it. Our fans don’t. Not only that, we despise UEFA to a point where 1000’s of regular PL going City fans won’t go to the CL games, no mater how cheap the tickets are.

Having watched numerous CL group matches this season, one thing is very evident and clear, City aren’t the only club across Europe and beyond struggling to sell out CL matches.

And if we’re being honest, the CL group stages have now become a predictable borefest, which will never attract sell out crowds at the Etihad.

Sorry, the club needs a rethink on this.

I find it surprising the club have taken this stance. The attendances at Barcelona are reflective of the opposition. Just fill the areas on camera. Most clubs get that bit prioritised to save face. We have an unfair mocking of our attendances when the truth is all other clubs have extra seats filled by day trippers. If they built the additional capacity and priced the CL accordingly they would get bums on seats from those fans. United aren't going to be in the CL for a while. Liverpool sell out. We are the option for people in the north to watch CL football.

The mentality has to change of course. This season could be that season. We should embrace the CL considering the league will be incredibly difficult now. Get Foden the experience he needs in the league and get our key players fit and ready for the CL. Prioritise that in the new year. As long as we are in the top 4 we are fine. We would do ourselves a big favour moving forward if Garcia, Rodri, Foden and Jesus all played more league minutes to set themselves up for next season. Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho can be used for the CL when we really need them.

 

[Marvin]

That’s nonsensical in my opinion, even though I do believe you. Cough!

The CL games aren’t our bread and butter games. That’s the PL games, regardless of what the club thinks.

To delay expanding the NS, and only to do it when CL games at the Etihad sell out on a regular basis is very shortsighted by the club in my opinion.

In fact, the club might as well put the NS expansion on hold for good in that case, as we will never sell out CL group stage games.

Until we win the CL and the fans finally take to it, we will never sell out CL games, bar the later knockout stages against the big European cartel clubs and ‘European Royalty’. ;-)

This season’s CL group stages have been pretty dreadful, with poor opposition, average team performances, and dreadful atmospheres.

I appreciate where the club is coming from with this. They probably don’t want 6000 empty seats in the NS for CL matches. But in the same breath, we could fill 6000 seats for PL games. It’s a trade off.

We all know why Liverpool. United and Chelsea sell out their CL matches. It’s because they’ve won the CL and their fans have an affinity for it. Our fans don’t. Not only that, we despise UEFA to a point where 1000’s of regular PL going City fans won’t go to the CL games, no mater how cheap the tickets are.

Having watched numerous CL group matches this season, one thing is very evident and clear, City aren’t the only club across Europe and beyond struggling to sell out CL matches.

And if we’re being honest, the CL group stages have now become a predictable borefest, which will never attract sell out crowds at the Etihad.

Sorry, the club needs a rethink on this.

Some of our fans have cut off their own nose in respect of the CL games but putting that on one side...

We walked the group stage this season and it wasn't exciting opposition but the crowds were still good.

To get bigger crowds though isn't it a bit of a chicken and an egg situation? We can't add more regular local match-going support until we've got a bigger stadium. If we wait until CL games are over-subscribed I fear we will be waiting a long time.

I understand that there's no point expanding if there's 5k empty seats for every home league game, but I am almost certain that we'd fill an expanded ground for league games if it was priced correctly , but it wouldn't be full for mid-week Cup games. City's support has grown a lot, but imo it grew a lot because it had a stadium to grow into. Once it's full then it's difficult to get new match-going fans to take the places of season-card no-shows.

I don't think the club have helped themselves regarding the Cup crowds, because a lot of seasoncard holders seem to have dropped out of the CL scheme to cover the seasoncard price increases(going off my limited observations - knowledge of people who sit near me).

 

[Marvin]

I find it surprising the club have taken this stance. The attendances at Barcelona are reflective of the opposition. Just fill the areas on camera. Most clubs get that bit prioritised to save face. We have an unfair mocking of our attendances when the truth is all other clubs have extra seats filled by day trippers. If they built the additional capacity and priced the CL accordingly they would get bums on seats from those fans. United aren't going to be in the CL for a while. Liverpool sell out. We are the option for people in the north to watch CL football.

The mentality has to change of course. This season could be that season. We should embrace the CL considering the league will be incredibly difficult now. Get Foden the experience he needs in the league and get our key players fit and ready for the CL. Prioritise that in the new year. As long as we are in the top 4 we are fine. We would do ourselves a big favour moving forward if Garcia, Rodri, Foden and Jesus all played more league minutes to set themselves up for next season. Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho can be used for the CL when we really need them.

Well barring a miracle we wont be top seeds next season so the CL group next season will be more exciting.

The Shakhtar game was not enticing, and yet the attendance was amazing. 52k with no away fans is impressive.

I think our support has gone beyond the seasoncard regulars we always had but that's probably in part down to the growth we get by going from 34k to 47k and then from 47k to 54k. Once you're at capacity for the league games, I fear it may restrict growth in our support. I don't think kt does entirely.

I think you're right that a lot of seasoncard holders need to change their attitude re European games. The only way of doing it will be to win it.

Bizarrely I know seasoncard holders who much prefer the League Cup to the CL. I think it's in part down to the UEFA FFP but also down to experience of defeat over and over again in the latterstages whereas the League Cup is associated with success.

 

[Marvin]

Does anyone sell out CL group games, apart from the smaller grounds or vs "big" teams?

Liverpool do but maybe if they had been Champions a few times and got weak opponents and had qualified from the Group stages about 7 years on the trot the appetite would wear off.

Utd are not a good comparison as historically they charge all their season ticket holders. SPurs are in a new stadium and that creates excitement. We'll see how long that lasts. Chelsea have a small ground although it's been noticeable that when the away fans don't take up their allocation they haven;t sold them to home fans.

 

[Hoghead]

We play 3 games at home in the CL group stage and until knocked out another 2/3 games. Say 6 games at an extra 6k seats is 36k extra bums on seats. This is less than a home League or FA cup game which is all down to the luck of the draw!

 

[Marvin]

We play 3 games at home in the CL group stage and until knocked out another 2/3 games. Say 6 games at an extra 6k seats is 36k extra bums on seats. This is less than a home League or FA cup game which is all down to the luck of the draw!

I saw the 7k expansion of Anfield quoted as £60m.

If we took that as cost for our expansion then for seasoncards (£500) + Cups (£100) = 6000 seats x £600 per annum = £3.6m. It would take 15 seasons to recover the cost (a bit less if there were prices increases)

However think about an annual return of £3.6m on £60m. That's 6%. That's not bad. And presumably if you invest £60m into the infrastructure of the stadium, it improves the assets i.e. adds to the balance sheet so an owner hasn't lost the money. The club is worth more. Sensible use of money. This becomes relevant when you've got organisations buying 10% of your equity. They pay more.

 

[gouldybob]

Had a chance to speak with someone about the expansion and other stadium plans recently.

The club are waiting on CL games to sell out or close to it before putting in another 6-7 thousand more seats.

People will point to the recent CL home crowds but truth is around 5k-7k of those seats are sometimes given out to schools, clubs, charities, sponsors, competitions etc, when we don’t play the big European sides. Even when we played Spurs in the quarter final it only sold out a day before the game.

The club want to build it as soon as possible and would ideally have preferred to have it done by now but need to be sure the demand is there for mid week games before finally pulling the trigger. Everything is in place.

Surprised to hear such a short sighted view from the club, if it is. Add 6000 seats as non season tickets at average £40 per seat is about £4.5million. 6 Chumps league home games just over a million. If they price it local people turn up, for Premier League tourists are waiting and those who want to pick and choose can do.

Hope the big tier debate isn't slowing things down as the "Wall of sound" from the Spurs design everyone goes on about is a phallacy. It gets full of people looking for cheapest tickets not wanting to sing and shout.

Champs league Barcelona 10000,20000 & 30000+ under capacity. Not sold out a game all season and they are looking to expand. If City think there is latent demand they should realise that not being able to get tickets switches people off and they often don't come back. My brother was a season ticket holder from the 70's up until 5 years ago when his lad started playing and he was moved around in the family stand. Now, they don't even try to get Derby tickets on a Cityzens card when they qualify. They just have other things that have filled the City space.

To paraphrase Kevin Costner "Build it and they will come (at the right price)."

 

[Gordyola]

I was in Germany a few weeks back and they had trams with no fixed seating. It all folded away to leave a massive cavity, they would be perfect for events whilst still maintaining the seats for normal use throughout the week. TGMT messed up on this one imo.

Sounds like safe standing

 

[Hoghead]

I saw the 7k expansion of Anfield quoted as £60m.

If we took that as cost for our expansion then for seasoncards (£500) + Cups (£100) = 6000 seats x £600 per annum = £3.6m. It would take 15 seasons to recover the cost (a bit less if there were prices increases)

However think about an annual return of £3.6m on £60m. That's 6%. That's not bad. And presumably if you invest £60m into the infrastructure of the stadium, it improves the assets i.e. adds to the balance sheet so an owner hasn't lost the money. The club is worth more. Sensible use of money. This becomes relevant when you've got organisations buying 10% of your equity. They pay more.

I was trying to put into some kind of context the supposed delay to the expansion was the apathy to the CL and attendance figures. This really doesn't stake up as it's only the same as one cup domestic game where, if we go all the way, could have none at home or all at home depending on the luck of the draw.

 

[Marvin]

I was trying to put into some kind of context the supposed delay to the expansion was the apathy to the CL and attendance figures. This really doesn't stake up as it's only the same as one cup domestic game where, if we go all the way, could have none at home or all at home depending on the luck of the draw.

I know what you mean. We're getting 50k now in CL so as you say 6 games with unutilised 10k seats is not hugely significant providing the ground is full for the league matches.

If that's the explanation it's silly. Why let midweek Cup games which are a small part of our fixture commitment dictate City's growth.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I would like to see our stadium expanded but a 55k capacity is fine for what we need for the foreseeable future. That said, the FA Cup home games, like Port Vale, are a great opportunity to get new fans/families into the ground and to demonstrate demand for a larger stadium.

The Sheikh will prioritise the investments he thinks he will get the best return on and we can’t expect him to bankroll an expanded Etihad yet if the sum don’t add up.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Went along to the consultation this evening. Talked to them about transport and food/drink provision around the area. They've got plans for a food court on the arena concourse, which could be open even if there are no events at the arena itself. Hopefully that will kick City into doing something more imaginative with City Square.

I suggested having shuttle buses running from Victoria/Gt Ancoats St/Northern Quarter/Piccadilly then back to all these places after games/events. Most of the people coming to the arena events won't be familiar with the area & I suspect won't fancy the walk or be able to time it properly. Therefore they need some way of getting there easily. I also suggested running trams that normally terminate at Piccadilly through to the Etihad for an hour or so before & after games but got the distinct impression that Metrolink aren't being terribly helpful at the moment.

 

[worsleyweb]

Went along to the consultation this evening. Talked to them about transport and food/drink provision around the area. They've got plans for a food court on the arena concourse, which could be open even if there are no events at the arena itself. Hopefully that will kick City into doing something more imaginative with City Square.

I suggested having shuttle buses running from Victoria/Gt Ancoats St/Northern Quarter/Piccadilly then back to all these places after games/events. Most of the people coming to the arena events won't be familiar with the area & I suspect won't fancy the walk or be able to time it properly. Therefore they need some way of getting there easily. I also suggested running trams that normally terminate at Piccadilly through to the Etihad for an hour or so before & after games but got the distinct impression that Metrolink aren't being terribly helpful at the moment.

Saw you on tv last night mate. Looked well.

 

[Wilmslow Road]

Went along to the consultation this evening. Talked to them about transport and food/drink provision around the area. They've got plans for a food court on the arena concourse, which could be open even if there are no events at the arena itself. Hopefully that will kick City into doing something more imaginative with City Square.

I suggested having shuttle buses running from Victoria/Gt Ancoats St/Northern Quarter/Piccadilly then back to all these places after games/events. Most of the people coming to the arena events won't be familiar with the area & I suspect won't fancy the walk or be able to time it properly. Therefore they need some way of getting there easily. I also suggested running trams that normally terminate at Piccadilly through to the Etihad for an hour or so before & after games but got the distinct impression that Metrolink aren't being terribly helpful at the moment.

As there is talk of building third tier I cant see them doing do anything to City Square as it would impinge on the area, and probably have to be removed.
Cant see them running shuttle bus's as it would conflict with present after match operators.
As for Metrolink it would be help if they at least had a tram on Station after the match and run 4 tram services on a match day, especially Saturday.
I really cant see that through the Town Hall they cannot exert some pressure on them.
So all in all except for opening a food court they are going to do jack shit.
Thanks for your info, this is not having a go at you, just trying to summarise.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

As there is talk of building third tier I cant see them doing do anything to City Square as it would impinge on the area, and probably have to be removed.
Cant see them running shuttle bus's as it would conflict with present after match operators.
As for Metrolink it would be help if they at least had a tram on Station after the match and run 4 tram services on a match day, especially Saturday.
I really cant see that through the Town Hall they cannot exert some pressure on them.
So all in all except for opening a food court they are going to do jack shit.
Thanks for your info, this is not having a go at you, just trying to summarise.

I agree that a lot hinges on the North Stand decision. The shuttle buses could be done though. As far as I know, there's just one lot of buses waiting on Ashton New Road after the game and once they're goen, they're gone. In Liverpool they have the Soccerbus that runs from Sandhills station to Anfield/Goodison and back after the game. They come back once they've done their first run after a game finishes. I usually use that when at matches there.

I've just come back from Pittsburgh and was in a restaurant there which ran shuttle buses to Steelers games at Heinz Field. There's no reason the NQ and Ancoats bars/pubs/eateries couldn't get together and do the same. The problem, as you allude to, is having the will to do it.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Went along to the consultation this evening. Talked to them about transport and food/drink provision around the area. They've got plans for a food court on the arena concourse, which could be open even if there are no events at the arena itself. Hopefully that will kick City into doing something more imaginative with City Square.

I suggested having shuttle buses running from Victoria/Gt Ancoats St/Northern Quarter/Piccadilly then back to all these places after games/events. Most of the people coming to the arena events won't be familiar with the area & I suspect won't fancy the walk or be able to time it properly. Therefore they need some way of getting there easily. I also suggested running trams that normally terminate at Piccadilly through to the Etihad for an hour or so before & after games but got the distinct impression that Metrolink aren't being terribly helpful at the moment.

The Met Inspectors at the Etihad stop kept complaining to fans for waiting for their particular Mets after the game.

Every week it was the same conversation with them.

Them; “Please fill up this tram”
Me; “No, I’m waiting for the Altrincham one so I don’t have to change. It drops me right by my house.”
Them; “I’m not bothered, we need to keep the platforms safe.”
Me; “It’s not like I’m going to start a riot, I’m just quietly going to wait over here for the Met I want.”
Them; “Just fill up this tram. Stop being awkward. We need to clear the platforms.”
Me; “No, I’ll get on the Met I need.”

Every week that went on. With me and others wanting to go to other destinations.

I think they complained and it ended up that the service used least by City fans was the only service that came to the Etihad meaning almost everyone would have to change in Town.

What they don’t seem to understand is that, unlike Old Trafford where they have multiple options to go in various directions, we have one stop.

I used to be home at a decent time when there were direct Alty Mets after night games, now I’m lucky to catch the last Met and have had to get a taxi after missing it twice.

 

[MCFCTrick]

I've just come back from Pittsburgh and was in a restaurant there which ran shuttle buses to Steelers games at Heinz Field. There's no reason the NQ and Ancoats bars/pubs/eateries couldn't get together and do the same. The problem, as you allude to, is having the will to do it.

The Waldorf pub does just that, coach to the ground before games.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

The Waldorf pub does just that, coach to the ground before games.

Never knew that. Thanks.

 

[City14]

Anyone seen the new PSG Training facility??
€250Million scheduled for completion in 2022. And 30mins from PSG Stadium.

looks like they have taken our Team locker room (circular design) and huge logo in middle ...(min 2:47in video) room and copied it.

Ours, I think size wise is bigger, and have to say bit more well thought out as it is in close proximity to stadium.



thoughts???