General Election - December 12th, 2019

[BlueAnorak]

The Baroness' criticism in that article is more nuanced than those quotes would seem to suggest. "In relation to Johnson, who prompted outrage by writing last year that woman wearing burqas looked like “letter boxes” and argued in 2007 that Islam caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind”, she is more sympathetic, describing him as a “centre-ground, liberal Conservative”.“He’s made stupid remarks and I think he thinks he’s too clever by half. That’s just part of that well-to-do white privilege that comes in certain spaces, but I don’t think it’s pernicious … I don’t think he’s Islamophobic. I do not think he wants to go out and attack Muslims simply for being Muslim or wants to make life difficult for them. I genuinely don’t believe that. He’s no Michael Gove.” The British Muslim Council have a rather different agenda I think.

He was a actually defending a Muslim woman's right to wear what she wanted but, hey, let's not get in the way of facts.
Guilty of being un-woke for sure. I fully expect that to become a criminal offence before to long.

 

[BobKowalski]

The Baroness' criticism in that article is more nuanced than those quotes would seem to suggest. "In relation to Johnson, who prompted outrage by writing last year that woman wearing burqas looked like “letter boxes” and argued in 2007 that Islam caused the Muslim world to be “literally centuries behind”, she is more sympathetic, describing him as a “centre-ground, liberal Conservative”.“He’s made stupid remarks and I think he thinks he’s too clever by half. That’s just part of that well-to-do white privilege that comes in certain spaces, but I don’t think it’s pernicious … I don’t think he’s Islamophobic. I do not think he wants to go out and attack Muslims simply for being Muslim or wants to make life difficult for them. I genuinely don’t believe that. He’s no Michael Gove.” The British Muslim Council have a rather different agenda I think.

You could swap out references to Muslims with Jews and the The British Muslim Coucil with the Jewish Leadership Council and you have the Labour rebuttal for accusations of anti-semitism, especially with the ‘...different agenda’.

When a group of people tell you that you have a problem, rather than excuse it or dismiss it, listen to them and that applies to both parties.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Not true according to conservative peer Baroness Warsi. She described Islamophobia in the Tory party as making her feel like she was in an abusive relationship. The British Muslim council criticised Johnsons comments on women looking like letter boxes as “feeding the far right”. During the Tory party leadership debates all the candidates, when asked by Sajid Javid, agreed to hold an investigation into Islamophobia during a BBC debate and it got canned.

i think the article said if someone wants to look like a letterbox that’s Upto them and who cares.

 

[bluethrunthru]

From Chesham Bucks. Not quite as bad as the Brexit MEP for Sunderland who lives in France !!!!!

please tell me about your local tory candidate who lives comically far away. i am convinced jane macbean got off the metro at gateshead interchange, took this unbelievably poorly lit photo, and got back on again



[URL='https://twitter.com/MissAbigailWms']Abigail Williams@MissAbigailWms
[/URL]


mine lives in rugby. i live in south manchester.

 

[George Hannah]

Your reply sound a little like a Labour Party member trying to defend their parties handling of antisemitism?If there is no problem in the Conservative party, why would Sajid Javid live on tv, ask the rest of the leadership hopefuls to agree to an investigation?

Who is saying there is no racism problem in the Tory Party? I'm not trying to defend anybody, you're well off beam there friend. It's important to be accurate and balanced on this important subject if you can, saves a lot of unnecessary strife on here.

 

[BobKowalski]

He was a actually defending a Muslim woman's right to wear what she wanted but, hey, let's not get in the way of facts.
Guilty of being un-woke for sure. I fully expect that to become a criminal offence before to long.

You can make that defence without being offensive or a colossal dick.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

You could swap out references to Muslims with Jews and the The British Muslim Coucil with the Jewish Leadership Council and you have the Labour rebuttal for accusations of anti-semitism, especially with the ‘...different agenda’.

When a group of people tell you that you have a problem, rather than excuse it or dismiss it, listen to them and that applies to both parties.

why are you swapping it is that whAt they have said or it just a bob swap?

 

[Postman Pep]

To what? It's patently obvious that the Labour party has had a deep-rooted problem with antisemitism which goes back years and still persists. It's also obvious that the Tory party has no such afflction. There may or may not have been isolated cases - I don't know every specific. But that's the long and the short of it. Only 1 party has the chief Rabbi condemning their leader. Only 1 party has the Jewish Chronicle urging Jews and none-Jews not to vote for them. That is THE LABOUR PARTY.

Now if you want to try to play silly games to try unsuccessfully to deflect from this, you can play them on your own.

So despite both parties fielding candidates who've posted dubious content one has a obvious deep rooted problem while it's equally obvious that the other has no such affliction. People in glass houses

 

[Hesperus]

Who is saying there is no racism problem in the Tory Party? I'm not trying to defend anybody, you're well off beam there friend. It's important to be accurate and balanced on this important subject if you can, saves a lot of unnecessary strife on here.

Sorry if I misinterpreted your post, it sounded like you were downplaying the comments of Warsi and the British Muslim council.

I agree we need to be balanced on these points which is why the posts about the Tory party not being afflicted in the same way as labour are we’re a little disingenuous.

 

[abu13]

The one thing that i have seen more and more as this election campaign has gone on is just how badly fucked up this country now is, we used to talk about unemployment etc.. now we talk about child poverty, food banks, politicians openly lying to us etc..

And all the while, we have given more and more tax breaks to the richer in society.

We live in a morally bankrupt age of politics.

 

[mat]

I’m sorry, but I don’t want to be an emperor. That’s not my business. I don’t want to rule or conquer anyone. I should like to help everyone - if possible - Jew, Gentile - black man - white. We all want to help one another. Human beings are like that. We want to live by each other’s happiness - not by each other’s misery. We don’t want to hate and despise one another. In this world there is room for everyone. And the good earth is rich and can provide for everyone. The way of life can be free and beautiful, but we have lost the way.

Greed has poisoned men’s souls, has barricaded the world with hate, has goose-stepped us into misery and bloodshed. We have developed speed, but we have shut ourselves in. Machinery that gives abundance has left us in want. Our knowledge has made us cynical. Our cleverness, hard and unkind. We think too much and feel too little. More than machinery we need humanity. More than cleverness we need kindness and gentleness. Without these qualities, life will be violent and all will be lost….

The aeroplane and the radio have brought us closer together. The very nature of these inventions cries out for the goodness in men - cries out for universal brotherhood - for the unity of us all. Even now my voice is reaching millions throughout the world - millions of despairing men, women, and little children - victims of a system that makes men torture and imprison innocent people.



To those who can hear me, I say - do not despair. The misery that is now upon us is but the passing of greed - the bitterness of men who fear the way of human progress. The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish. …..

Soldiers! don’t give yourselves to brutes - men who despise you - enslave you - who regiment your lives - tell you what to do - what to think and what to feel! Who drill you - diet you - treat you like cattle, use you as cannon fodder. Don’t give yourselves to these unnatural men - machine men with machine minds and machine hearts! You are not machines! You are not cattle! You are men! You have the love of humanity in your hearts! You don’t hate! Only the unloved hate - the unloved and the unnatural! Soldiers! Don’t fight for slavery! Fight for liberty!

In the 17th Chapter of St Luke it is written: “the Kingdom of God is within man” - not one man nor a group of men, but in all men! In you! You, the people have the power - the power to create machines. The power to create happiness! You, the people, have the power to make this life free and beautiful, to make this life a wonderful adventure.

Then - in the name of democracy - let us use that power - let us all unite. Let us fight for a new world - a decent world that will give men a chance to work - that will give youth a future and old age a security. By the promise of these things, brutes have risen to power. But they lie! They do not fulfil that promise. They never will!

Dictators free themselves but they enslave the people! Now let us fight to fulfil that promise! Let us fight to free the world - to do away with national barriers - to do away with greed, with hate and intolerance. Let us fight for a world of reason, a world where science and progress will lead to all men’s happiness. Soldiers! in the name of democracy, let us all unite!

That speech is 100 years old but still meaningful today.

 

[George Hannah]

You could swap out references to Muslims with Jews and the The British Muslim Coucil with the Jewish Leadership Council and you have the Labour rebuttal for accusations of anti-semitism, especially with the ‘...different agenda’. When a group of people tell you that you have a problem, rather than excuse it or dismiss it, listen to them and that applies to both parties.

You could and if you did you would grossly distort the real situation in both cases in the process - the actual and historical context of each is significantly different albeit with some similarites. There are no Labour or Tory 'rebuttals' btw just weasel words - both parties say they will consider and address the outcome of the respective enquiries, internal in the case of the latter. Your final sentence contains sound and very obvious advice that nobody would argue with I hope.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The one thing that i have seen more and more as this election campaign has gone on is just how badly fucked up this country now is, we used to talk about unemployment etc.. now we talk about child poverty, food banks, politicians openly lying to us etc..

And all the while, we have given more and more tax breaks to the richer in society.

We live in a morally bankrupt age of politics.

Its a bit tough to talk about these topics when the Govt refuses to put spokesmen up to debate them - tonights debate was one of a number of debates and interviews where the Govt has decided that they would prefer not to be open to questioning on their policies. One can only surmise why they are frightened of making their case to the public but at the same time I despair of people who think that is perfectly normal election behaviour.

 

[Vic]

An interesting article comparing Labour's current problems with the development of the Nazi Party:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/p...died-holocaust-never-understood-could-happen/

And yes it is that bad. Not that those on here would even remotely think it is.

Behind a firewall but that is sheer nonsense. And I suspect you know that.

And that's after discussion with my friend whose grandfather was shot by the Nazis in Poland and whose uncle died in Belsen.

He was a actually defending a Muslim woman's right to wear what she wanted but, hey, let's not get in the way of facts.
Guilty of being un-woke for sure. I fully expect that to become a criminal offence before to long.

You sound like an idiot but I defend your right to sound like an idiot. That's what Johnson's "defence" is.

 

[abu13]

Its a bit tough to talk about these topics when the Govt refuses to put spokesmen up to debate them - tonights debate was one of a number of debates and interviews where the Govt has decided that they would prefer not to be open to questioning on their policies. One can only surmise why they are frightened of making their case to the public but at the same time I despair of people who think that is perfectly normal election behaviour.

I couldn't agree more, in my opinion if a party has been in power they should be able to base their campaign on there performance thus far.

Tonights show of contempt by the Tories by not putting out a spokesperson speaks volumes.

 

[BlueAnorak]

I couldn't agree more, in my opinion if a party has been in power they should be able to base their campaign on there performance thus far.

Tonights show of contempt by the Tories by not putting out a spokesperson speaks volumes.

Why should anyone attend a 5 to 1 beat-up, especially when fronted by the politically biased Channel 4, is beyond me.

 

[BlueAnorak]

No-one's defending anti-semitism anywhere. But the Labour party is not "wholly infected".

I have read the dossier provided by the Jewish Labour Movement and I beg to differ.
It boils down to the fact that if you criticise the party you are an enemy of the party.

 

[The perfect fumble]

No-one's defending anti-semitism anywhere. But the Labour party is not "wholly infected".

I don't recall the Nazis having a Muslim mayor of Berlin, or women only short lists, let alone someone like Eddie Izzard on it and I don't remember the party having been led by the son of Jewish immigrants either, or having a black shadow home secretary.

But what do I know.

 

[George Hannah]

That speech is 100 years old but still meaningful today.

written and spoken by Charlie - no record of his London birth exists apparently

 

[BobKowalski]

You could and if you did you would grossly distort the real situation in both cases in the process - the actual and historical context of each is significantly different albeit with some similarites. There are no Labour or Tory 'rebuttals' btw just weasel words - both parties say they will consider and address the outcome of the respective enquiries, internal in the case of the latter. Your final sentence contains sound and very obvious advice that nobody would argue with I hope.

I should have used ‘weasel words’ rather than ‘rebuttal’.