General Election - December 12th, 2019

[Chippy_boy]

And you believed a Tory ?........... soo gullible. It has been proved that 70% of what they portray as facts to truth are actually lies.

@BlueAnorak : The levels of denial are really quite staggering aren't they. Here you have someone who would be directly impacted (you) and the response you get is that above. The chief Rabbi calling out endemic anti-semitism and apparently there is none and it's just political gesturing. Unbelievable stuff.

 

[Metal Biker]

You think Corbyn is far left don't you? And I'm supporting him.
These antics you speak of. What are they? And have any been implemented?

I'm assured that Momentum is Far-left, and they are backing him. You're not voting for Corbyn, unless you live in Islington. You're voting in them.

You're also now on a completely different topic to the post you initially responded to.

 

[inbetween]

problem is so many people equate ‘’lets get Brexit done’’ with thinking it will all be all over in a couple months, little do they know.

Yeah but that isn't the point, Labour are a threat to Brexit happening at all.

I'll just ask, why would you vote Labour if you voted for Brexit and want Brexit to go ahead in some form or another?

Why would you also vote Labour in the knowledge that they will negotiate a deal that at heart they will tell the public to reject?

Labour are not an option for the working class public that voted for Brexit.

 

[Chippy_boy]

And if you looked at the Labour manifesto that is exactly what is being proposed.....

But what is being proposed cannot be delivered with the policies they propose. It is important you understand that, because you don't seem to have grasped it.

Nowhere in the world (except maybe some outlier oil-rich states, I am not sure) has anything like the levels of government spending on public services you would like to see, combined with just a 20% basic rate of income tax. It simply DOES NOT ADD UP.

You cannot leverage that amount of tax revenue just from companies and the very few extremely rich people. If Labour want those sorts of public services, they should be honest and tell people that the basic rate of tax probably needs to be something like 30% or 35% and then ask people if they want to vote for that. Of course we know what the answer would be, don't we.

This attribute you constantly demonstrate "I want much better public services. and I want other people to pay for them" is deeply unpleasant and i find it pretty offensive to be honest.

 

[The perfect fumble]

You would think this very bold claim is backed up by considerably bold levels of evidence, wouldn’t you?

You make me laugh....

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...t-critical-of-the-politics-of-israel-1.494120

 

[BobKowalski]

Agree. Two bad options, most people are voting against what the perceive as the worst and ignoring the issues in the party they are voting for.

A huge number of voters are hoping for a hung parliament and that these two leaders get the sack. It is quite clearly the best we can hope for. Neither are fit to be PM. Corbyn has no chance so i dont see him as a risk. Johnson on the other hand is a lying racist, if he wins a majority it will be a disaster.

Agreed. The election may also confirm the ‘Americanisation’ of our politics. Socially progressive, liberal and outward looking metropolitan cities and areas and more socially conservative and inward looking town and rural areas. Whereas the popular vote may swing toward one demographic our system may favour the the other which will also feed into future tensions.

The dynamic in Scotland, Wales and NI may also counter the trend in England leading to more tensions on our Union (and that’s ignoring the particular pressure NI will bring in the next few years as we struggle to implement what we have signed up for with the WA).

Add in social care, health care, demographics and how our system can only function if it has an influx of people wanting to come and work and make a home here and it’s difficult to see how a Johnson Govt, largely spent of talent and ideas, can adequately address any of the issues. Not that it is pretending it can given its vision of the future is to largely ignore or lie about the issues which it seems we are happy to buy. The reality is, post December 13th, is that there are 27 other countries that have a say in our future and as NI found out they seem to have a bigger say than countries within our own Union.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Agreed. The election may also confirm the ‘Americanisation’ of our politics. Socially progressive, liberal and outward looking metropolitan cities and areas and more socially conservative and inward looking town and rural areas. Whereas the popular vote may swing toward one demographic our system may favour the the other which will also feed into future tensions.

The dynamic in Scotland, Wales and NI may also counter the trend in England leading to more tensions on our Union (and that’s ignoring the particular pressure NI will bring in the next few years as we struggle to implement what we have signed up for with the WA).

Add in social care, health care, demographics and how our system can only function if it has an influx of people wanting to come and work and make a home here and it’s difficult to see how a Johnson Govt, largely spent of talent and ideas, can adequately address any of the issues. Not that it is pretending it can given its vision of the future is to largely ignore or lie about the issues which it seems we are happy to buy. The reality is, post December 13th, is that there are 27 other countries that have a say in our future and as NI found out they seem to have a bigger say than countries within our own Union.

Leaving the EU solves nothing - it creates a myriad of problems. Layered over this will be the incompetence of the likes of Matt Hancock and Jacob Rees Mogg and the ridiculousness of their manifesto. They have made lose promises of investment yet they will not hesitate to cut as soon as things look tricky and they will be looking tricky within 6 months. But we wont be able to get rid of them for 5 years as the decent tories walked out on mass. What a disaster we are walking into.

 

[mcfc1632]

Leaving the EU solves nothing - it creates a myriad of problems. Layered over this will be the incompetence of the likes of Matt Hancock and Jacob Rees Mogg and the ridiculousness of their manifesto. They have made lose promises of investment yet they will not hesitate to cut as soon as things look tricky and they will be looking tricky within 6 months. But we wont be able to get rid of them for 5 years as the decent tories walked out on mass. What a disaster we are walking into.

Hopefully there is an outcome on Thursday that allows Brexit to be concluded in January - and by that I mean this stage.

That will then hopefully bring an end to people still in 2015/2016 campaign mode for Remain

At least we can all start to look to the future and discuss that

 

[robbieh]

Yeah but that isn't the point, Labour are a threat to Brexit happening at all.

I'll just ask, why would you vote Labour if you voted for Brexit and want Brexit to go ahead in some form or another?

Why would you also vote Labour in the knowledge that they will negotiate a deal that at heart they will tell the public to reject?

Labour are not an option for the working class public that voted for Brexit.

But by the same logic, the Tories are not an option for middle class people who voted to remain.

 

[Blue Hefner]

This is pretty funny

 

[mcfc1632]

But by the same logic, the Tories are not an option for middle class people who voted to remain.

Whilst that may be true - for so many centrist tories who might have voted Remain - this LP leadership presents a danger far greater than the outcome of Brexit

A Centrist led LP would win a massive majority - LP supporters need to wake up and realise this before recovering is not possible

 

[Bluemanc100]

And if you looked at the Labour manifesto that is exactly what is being proposed.....

I wouldn’t... actually couldn’t with the existing front bench

 

[blueparrot]

Those choices being;

Conservative majority
Corbyn/Momentum majority (I refuse to call them 'Labour')
Hung parliament.

No-one wants a hung parliament, I cannot abide Corbyn and Momentum deciding policy, so...

I won't vote for them, but if I wake up on Dec 13th and see Boris grinning like a cheshire cat, i'll be like "right... time to step down Corbyn"

A Tory win is preciesly what Labour moderates need to put pressure on his supporters to say "he's not good enough". Miliband only had one crack at the whip, why does Corbyn get two (or three?)

Well Hung parliament is option 2 not Corbyn, as for no one want a hung parliament,many of us want exactly that and for it to see the end of Corbyn and Johnson.

 

[mat]

Our current PM....

 

[Bluemanc100]

Whilst that may be true - for so many centrist tories who might have voted Remain - this LP leadership presents a danger far greater than the outcome of Brexit

A Centrist led LP would win a massive majority - LP supporters need to wake up and realise this before recovering is not possible

Do you think that Corbyn is about to step down.. he suggested in a recent interview that he’d stay as leader regardless of the GE result

 

[The perfect fumble]

No surprise...

 

[Chippy_boy]

Leaving the EU solves nothing - it creates a myriad of problems. Layered over this will be the incompetence of the likes of Matt Hancock and Jacob Rees Mogg and the ridiculousness of their manifesto. They have made lose promises of investment yet they will not hesitate to cut as soon as things look tricky and they will be looking tricky within 6 months. But we wont be able to get rid of them for 5 years as the decent tories walked out on mass. What a disaster we are walking into.

Your predictions are predicated upon a number of assumptions which may prove to be incorrect (and I believe they are).

For example,

(a) The misconception that Boris Johnson is some kind of right-wing hard liner - he isn't. He's a moderate, and in fact he's not even that hard line when it comes to Brexit. His politics are nothing like that of John Redwood or Jacob Rees Mogg, for example.

(b) The misconception that Tories imagine that any levels of cuts are acceptable, irrespective of circumstances. And that we can simply keep cutting and cutting. This is also not correct. The austerity program started in 2010 and which was re-endorsed in 2015 was in the context of the economics at the time. The government was spending way more than it received, the state had grown to become (what many Tories believed) too large as a proportion of the overall economy and there was room for cuts. None of these are now true. The deficit is way down, the size of the state is down and there is no room for further cuts.

 

[Ban-jani]

You make me laugh....

https://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/...t-critical-of-the-politics-of-israel-1.494120

What has that got to do with proving Jewish leaders are both supporting local Jewish interests and the Israeli state?

You see you’re trying a tactic of posting links in the hope that people ignore it and don’t read it, well I’ve read it and all the article says is Gardiner is claiming Labour and Corbyn aren’t antisemitic, it’s irrelevant to the part of your original article I quoted.

The original article you posted says Jewish leaders in Britain are supporting local issues and Israel and that’s the problem. Now I’ll ask you again, is there any fucking evidence of that or are we now on to blaming western Jews for the actions of Israel?

 

[BlueAnorak]

And you believed a Tory ?........... soo gullible. It has been proved that 70% of what they portray as facts to truth are actually lies.

First, all politicians lie - Every single last one of them. For example, Labour politicians have lied through their teeth on Brexit.
Second, Labour have published a manifesto that is virtually guaranteed to deliver a huge recession followed by austerity on a massive scale.
So no I'm not gullible enough to vote Liebour or indeed Lie Dem.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Hopefully there is an outcome on Thursday that allows Brexit to be concluded in January - and by that I mean this stage.

That will then hopefully bring an end to people still in 2015/2016 campaign mode for Remain

At least we can all start to look to the future and discuss that

Like you say we exit stage one and into stage two. The point of no return and 12 months on the clock until the adverse economic impacts hit and jobs start to be lost. Zero upside expected from anyone. Brexit will be an absolute disaster. The general public have been misled on this from day 1 - what makes you think that Johnson's government will be straight with them if they get into power.

I will be campaigning to rejoin.