Another new Brexit thread

[BobKowalski]

You mis-read my post

No I read it fine. Your touching belief that English nationalism will sweep all before it has been a constant feature for the past three years no matter the evidence staring you in the face.

 

[Metal Biker]

Yes.

Well then...

I'm not interested in what your interpretation of their intentions or what happened.

The fact remains that people DID know that a vote to leave would be for the UK to leave the EU, end the CU and exit the SM. Both sides of the debate voiced this fact, and people knew about it.

 

[west didsblue]

Well then...

I'm not interested in what your interpretation of their intentions or what happened.

The fact remains that people DID know that a vote to leave would be for the UK to leave the EU, end the CU and exit the SM. Both sides of the debate voiced this fact, and people knew about it.

You spent 2 years banging on about EFTA/EEA being your preferred Brexit outcome so there must have been some people who didn't think it meant we had to exit the SM.

 

[Metal Biker]

You spent 2 years banging on about EFTA/EEA being your preferred Brexit outcome so there must have been some people who didn't think it meant we had to exit the SM.

And there were likely some people who thought that leaving the EU meant an end to migration. Doesn't change the fact that both sides of the debate voiced the fact that these associations would end if you voted to leave.

We're just back to the "people didn't know what they were voting for" bullshit. Everything was explained beforehand.

Rejoining the EFTA would mean re-adopting SM access. So people knew that it would first mean losing that access first, and I advocated it be something we seek to regain following negotiations in a post brexit Britain. That was my stance as a Lexiter. I'm not surprised you don't understand this though, it's not like you've ever listened to what i've been saying, have you.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Yes. The intention was, presumably, to scare the voters whereas Leave sought not to scare the voters by arguing that nothing would really change outside the EU. Clearly they neglected to point out that ‘nothing will change’ meant imposing an internal customs border within our own Union a decision that went from ‘something no British PM could ever contemplate’ to ‘let’s do it because we are out of options’ in a matter of months.

Nothing like standing firm on the trivial issue of sovereignty and constitutional principle.

And nothing like hyping something that most people are really not that bothered about, simply to try to justify a position.

I wonder if you ran a poll, how many people would put the need for some kinds of customs clearances between GB and NI as being a show-stopping reason to not leave the EU? Clearly very few gave a toss in 2016, and I doubt many do now either.

 

[mcfc1632]

No I read it fine. Your touching belief that English nationalism will sweep all before it has been a constant feature for the past three years no matter the evidence staring you in the face.

Nope - you should learn to read what is written rather than what you would like to see and respond to.

Otherwise you are just blathering

Try again - I will put your first response down to you still being in the early stages of bereavement

 

[BobKowalski]

Interesting piece indeed.

Another article but looking at it from a wider viewpoint than just Unionism.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...is-dups-fall-puts-united-ireland-back-agenda/

 

[BobKowalski]

And nothing like hyping something that most people are really not that bothered about, simply to try to justify a position.

I wonder if you ran a poll, how many people would put the need for some kinds of customs clearances between GB and NI as being a show-stopping reason to not leave the EU? Clearly very few gave a toss in 2016, and I doubt many do now either.

Most English people are not bothered about it yes. Northern Irish people however are very bothered unless you think only the English count and if so then why bother with our Union? If England is to continue to disregard the views of Scotland, NI and Wales then at least let’s be honest about it and just dissolve the Union.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Another article but looking at it from a wider viewpoint than just Unionism.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...is-dups-fall-puts-united-ireland-back-agenda/

Yes, I'd be in the "wary" category, when it comes to border polls under these circumstances.
I had thought it would take another generation of cross border business, cooperation, integration of cultures, before even contemplating it.
Even at that I don't know what I thought an outcome would look like.
Some kind of duel nationality, I think, but that's out the window with Brexit.

 

[Metal Biker]

Most English people are not bothered about it yes. Northern Irish people however are very bothered unless you think only the English count and if so then why bother with our Union? If England is to continue to disregard the views of Scotland, NI and Wales then at least let’s be honest about it and just dissolve the Union.

Recent opinion polls in NI showed the majority were in favour of the WA.

More so than the English were, actually.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Another article but looking at it from a wider viewpoint than just Unionism.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/1...is-dups-fall-puts-united-ireland-back-agenda/

i think he's been reading mine and @mancity2012_eamo 's posts on here to get that article :-)

 

[BobKowalski]

Recent opinion polls in NI showed the majority were in favour of the WA.

More so than the English were, actually.

Compared to ‘no deal’ yes. Compared to what they had previously ie ‘Remain’ then no. NI Business is very concerned about the new protocols and the introduction of an internal customs border. Any new barrier to trade incurs costs. A new internal border is also a constitutional and political worry for Unionists and for those who were happy with the previous status quo.

Selling out NI and imposing barely understood and largely undefined dual custom protocols is a major headache in waiting. That we are happy to sacrifice our Union in an effort to rid ourselves of another will be the biggest issue of the next decade. Fine words from Westminister are one thing. Actions another.

 

[mancity2012_eamo]

Recent opinion polls in NI showed the majority were in favour of the WA.

More so than the English were, actually.

It's less harmful to business on the ground, that's why.
But the uncertainty of the border issue cropping up every 3-5 years is not good for planning ahead, so this issue will really have to come to a head sooner rather than later.
Not good to hold a gun to NI heads. Pardon the probably ill-advised pun.

 

[BobKowalski]

i think he's been reading mine and @mancity2012_eamo 's posts on here to get that article :-)

Seemed that way :)

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Despite some parties not standing over here, the fact that there are now more nationalist seats that unionist is significant....and probably truly reflects the "new" cross community appeal of nationalism (irish)

But its useless discussing it as GB dont give a flying fuck about NI. Apart from @BobKowalski :-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

Despite some parties not standing over here, the fact that there are now more nationalist seats that unionist is significant....and probably truly reflects the "new" cross community appeal of nationalism (irish)

But its useless discussing it as GB dont give a flying fuck about NI. Apart from @BobKowalski :-)

I don't think it's a case of don't give a flying fuck, more that 64m people don't recognise the imperative to adopt policies they didn't vote for, simply to keep a proportion of 1.8m people in NI happy.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Somewhat unrelated, I happened to be looking at UK population data to support the post above. And I came across this:

Is it not staggering how the population explosion in the UK over the past 20 years, has been almost entirely in England! No wonder the Scots, Welsh and Irish are not so bothered about uncontrolled imigration: No-one wants to emigrate there!

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

I don't think it's a case of don't give a flying fuck, more that 64m people don't recognise the imperative to adopt policies they didn't vote for, simply to keep a proportion of 1.8m people in NI happy.

nah mate. You know im right :-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

nah mate. You know im right :-)

I dunno. I mean I only have a sample size of 1, i.e. me. But I do care a bit about the plight of NI. It's unfortunate it will be inevitably be treated slightly differently to the rest of the UK, but Brexit is an unsquarable circle and something has to give. I don't think it's right to avoid it simply to keep NI residents - and only a proportion of them at that - happy.

 

[west didsblue]

And there were likely some people who thought that leaving the EU meant an end to migration. Doesn't change the fact that both sides of the debate voiced the fact that these associations would end if you voted to leave.

We're just back to the "people didn't know what they were voting for" bullshit. Everything was explained beforehand.

Rejoining the EFTA would mean re-adopting SM access. So people knew that it would first mean losing that access first, and I advocated it be something we seek to regain following negotiations in a post brexit Britain. That was my stance as a Lexiter. I'm not surprised you don't understand this though, it's not like you've ever listened to what i've been saying, have you.

If you say so.

I'd accept a Norway deal, a Switzerland deal, an EFTA membership deal, a Canada style deal.

There's over 70 posts in this thread alone where you go on about EFTA. Maybe you could find one that explicitly mentions losing access then regaining it. They either say it should be part of our withdrawal arrangement or they imply it. (I haven't looked at all of them by the way - I'm not that sad)
Your problem is that sometimes people actually do look at your posts and interpret them as they are written rather than the after the fact interpretation that you put on them to justify your nonsensical positions.