Another new Brexit thread

[mcfc1632]

I see he's lining Johnson up for the blame when it all goes pear shaped!
Fucking laughable.

You do not have the wit it seems to see anything that requires a level of assessment

Is this going to be another period where your need to stalk me is going to come to the fore and you litter threads with vacuous one-liners

 

[Chippy_boy]

It's certainly possible they could get a hung parliament next time. If they wake the fuck up.

Result!??!

In the Christmas spirit,

"I'm dreaming of a hung Parilament
Just like ones we used to know..."

Is that REALLY what it's come to? Labour *might* be able to manage a hung parliament, provided they get their act together?

A *TOTAL* reset is obviously required. The party of opposition should be figuring out how it can win a majority, FFS.

 

[mcfc1632]

Derbyshire on BBC2 - "Some rather dramatic news - Caroline Flack has stepped down from Love Island. I think it was that.

I blame @kevin horlocks wand

I only had an hours worth of drafting to do to meet my commitment to finish a report before lunchtime - and look what distraction he has caused!!

 

[Chippy_boy]

You put your finger spot on it

Its called reality and pragmatism

Also, is it not time that the English within this Union started to hear about their aspirations receiving some priority?

Afterall we have heard about the 'special case' that is Scotland for decades and to a lesser degree N.I.

Just why must it be a given that Irish and Scottish nationalism should be seen as noble causes to be admired - yet any simple expression of the English caring about themselves (nothing to an extent resembling nationalism) is something to be derided and ashamed of?

Not to mention the supreme irony of NI being vehemently opposed to literally anything which puts so much as a piece of rice paper between NI and GB, whereas Scotland want to saw the country off and float it as far away as possible. (Which is fine with me by the way. If we never have to hear Jimmy Crankie whinging on and on, then that in itself would make it worth it.)

 

[Blue Hefner]

LONDON (Reuters) - The British pound slumped against the U.S. dollar and the euro in early European trading on Tuesday, following media reports that UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson was taking a hard line on Britain’s transition period for leaving the European Union.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Strong decision - quickly put an end to any scope/hope for continued Westminster machinations and start to focus everybody - especially the EU - on getting a deal substantially shaped

Good negotiation tactic as well

Agreed. As is the backtracking (if opponents want to call it that - I would call it "clarifying") on workers' rights. Not enshrining them in law *does not* mean we intend to bin them. What it means is we are not throwing away negotiating chips before we even sit around the negotiating table.

The EU want us trussed up like a chicken, forever bound by EU rules and regulations, greatly limiting our ability to compete more effectively for trade and inward investment. We need all options on the negotiating table if we are to secure the best possible deal.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Not what Gove said on TV this morning .... he said a Hard Brexit was still on the table.... and Johnson is to legislate to prevent MPs extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020.

Excellent news!

Not sure he can get that through mind you. I wonder how many of his 365 are up for no deal if necessary? He might get a few rebels, but I guess he has the numbers needed.

 

[west didsblue]

LONDON (Reuters) - The British pound slumped against the U.S. dollar and the euro in early European trading on Tuesday, following media reports that UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson was taking a hard line on Britain’s transition period for leaving the European Union.

Yep.
It was a short honeymoon and I made a few quid on the stock market over the last few couple of days while unrealistic optimism clouded the real situation that we now find ourselves in. It would seem that we have a prime minister who still seems to be in thrall to the right wing of his party and is doing what needs to be done to keep them happy for some reason. This means we're heading to a cliff edge at the end of the year where we will fold like a cheap suit once the pressure's on just like we did when we sold NI down the river a couple of months ago to secure a deal that the EU offered us two years ago. It will all be hailed as a great victory by the Brexit cheerleaders though whilst the EU will be pissing themselves at our stupidity.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Focusing the EU?
Fucking laughable!
Gun boats ready to be sent next!

About as laughable as his chances of getting the WA reopened for negotiation in September.

What is pretty plain on these forums is that some of you have never had to negotiate anything in your lives.

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

Not what Gove said on TV this morning .... he said a Hard Brexit was still on the table.... and Johnson is to legislate to prevent MPs extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020.

My early optimism that we'd see a mitigation of damage now through a soft brexit because of his massive majority and wouldn't need to bend to the ERG's will might have been misplaced

 

[Chippy_boy]

TBF, I cannot remember clearly, but I think that you are one of those on here that have previously demonstrated that you have no experience/understanding

You could have stopped there.

 

[Chippy_boy]

My early optimism that we'd see a mitigation of damage now through a soft brexit because of his massive majority and wouldn't need to bend to the ERG's will might have been misplaced

It hasn't been. These actions are all precursors to us getting the best possible FTA. Watch this space.

 

[mcfc1632]

Not to mention the supreme irony of NI being vehemently opposed to literally anything which puts so much as a piece of rice paper between NI and GB, whereas Scotland want to saw the country off and float it as far away as possible. (Which is fine with me by the way. If we never have to hear Jimmy Crankie whinging on and on, then that in itself would make it worth it.)

For another thread - but this news today means that Brexit is getting 'genuinely' done and that is where the government will be focussing its attentions - there will be no time to pander to Sturgeon's protestations in the coming months.

She knows the truth of it though - which is there is no way that the electorate of Scotland will vote to leave the Union of the UK without a good degree of certainty that it can join the Union of the EU - and that prospect becomes littered with severe difficulties once a 'genuine' Brexit is enacted.

Her need was to get Brexit delayed or reduced to a Brino and have a vote in that situation where the difficulties of leaving were a) not so well established and b) would not be so apparent to the electorate.

Expect to hear a lot more of her voice in the coming months - but during 2021 I expect the topic to become a receding distraction with much reduced support or even interest.

 

[west didsblue]

About as laughable as his chances of getting the WA reopened for negotiation in September.

What is pretty plain on these forums is that some of you have never had to negotiate anything in your lives.

Do you really think it was difficult for us to negotiate ourselves to a position that was offered to us on a plate two years ago when we had some red lines that we weren't prepared to cross?

 

[mcfc1632]

Agreed. As is the backtracking (if opponents want to call it that - I would call it "clarifying") on workers' rights. Not enshrining them in law *does not* mean we intend to bin them. What it means is we are not throwing away negotiating chips before we even sit around the negotiating table.

The EU want us trussed up like a chicken, forever bound by EU rules and regulations, greatly limiting our ability to compete more effectively for trade and inward investment. We need all options on the negotiating table if we are to secure the best possible deal.

It is refreshing to hear that someone else understands these things

 

[aguerrrroooooooooooo]

It hasn't been. These actions are all precursors to us getting the best possible FTA. Watch this space.

It took us 3½ years to get to this point of negotiating an exit deal Chip, I see no reason as to why the trade negotiations will go any better.

 

[mcfc1632]

Excellent news!

Not sure he can get that through mind you. I wonder how many of his 365 are up for no deal if necessary? He might get a few rebels, but I guess he has the numbers needed.

I love to see proper strategic thinking and the boldness to act.

People criticised his 'hardness' when carrying through on his threats to jettison the likes of Grieve from the party. Johnson and his advisors have so much more scope to get their tough positions through because of that determination because - a) there are 20+ less MPs to actively work with the opposition to undermine the government and also b) there are a few score MPs who may have been so-minded, but have seen where that leads.

Why the fuck would there have been any point in going through all that angst in the autumn just to see Grieve and co up in the HoC pontificating their weaselling bollocks again

 

[mcfc1632]

About as laughable as his chances of getting the WA reopened for negotiation in September.

What is pretty plain on these forums is that some of you have never had to negotiate anything in your lives.

I am becoming resigned to the simple fact that there will remain a cadre of those so far entrenched in their denial and so unable to just admit that they may have gotten things wrong - that there will be many such ill-thought through posts. They will just need to be ignored as they are derived from a lack of any relevant knowledge or experience

A lot of it is because as you say: "what is pretty plain on these forums is that some of you have never had to negotiate anything in your lives."

For some others it is just the inability to face up to reality

 

[Chippy_boy]

Do you really think it was difficult for us to negotiate ourselves to a position that was offered to us on a plate two years ago when we had some red lines that we weren't prepared to cross?

The EU said it was non-negotiable, done, finished, the negotiators had gone home, no possibility whatsoever of opening up the WA. But when faced with a man with a threat who looked like he was prepared to use it, they changed their tune.

Of course it wasn't a huge renegotiation but that's not the point. It demonstrates (not that any demonstration should be necessary) that parties make public statements about all sorts of positions which are very far from the truth, but that they may climb down from those positions if forced to do so. And of course they will not if they don't have to.

And this was achieved with Boris with one arm tied behind his back by an idiotic parliament legally removing any "no deal" option.

If he goes into the FTA negotiations on the basis of "we are gone December 31st 2020 come what may", then he will secure the best possible deal. And if he positions us as being prepared to extend or concede on various points, then extension and concession is what we will get. It's negotiation 101, it really is.

 

[west didsblue]

The EU said it was non-negotiable, done, finished, the negotiators had gone home, no possibility whatsoever of opening up the WA. But when faced with a man with a threat who looked like he was prepared to use it, they changed their tune.

And they went back to something that the EU had already offered that didn't need negotiating and something that "no UK prime minister could ever agree".
Genius negotiator.