It's not just the leaders though is it. So long as they cling to this "we won the argument", "our policies were very popular" bollocks, they could have Jesus as leader and they still wouldn't win.Will continue committing political suicide by appointing unelectable leaders for the foreseeable future.
But if Corbyn had gone with the other Remain parties - they could have made it work. He was just obsessed with using the situation to further his own ambitions about becoming PM - rather than just sorting Brexit out.They would have done if they could but they didn't have anywhere near enough support for a 2nd referendum.
Still baffled why the opposition parties did not just refuse an election and instead put through legislation for a 2nd referendum
Do that and get Brexit cancelled - then have a GE with the Tories with nothing to rally around and carrying the can for wasted years
For once I agree with you.But if Corbyn had gone with the other Remain parties - they could have made it work. He was just obsessed with using the situation to further his own ambitions about becoming PM - rather than just sorting Brexit out.
Which is two times more than you!For once I agree with you.
I suppose even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Don't be so hard on yourself ;-)For once I agree with you.
I suppose even a stopped clock is right twice a day.
Jeremy Corbyn (@jeremycorbyn) Tweeted: I would like to wish happy #Hanukkah to Jewish people celebrating in Britain and across the world. #Chanukah https://t.co/UfwHrEMNYK
Dan Jarvis is considering standing (MP and currently Sheffield Region Mayor).
I do hope he does, because I could actually vote for him. Being a former major in the Parachute Regiment he wouldn't scare the voters either.
Sadly, not a chance of being elected as he isn't a Marxist or left wing Socialist.
I genuinely do not think that there are many folk on here that could be accurately described as 'right-wing'.There seem to be a lot of fairly right wing folk very concerned about the future of Labour. Reminds me very much of how rags seemed concerned for the welfare of city in the mid-life 90's..
I genuinely do not think that there are many folk on here that could be accurately described as 'right-wing'.
It is just that the forum has such a strong cadre of 'hard-left' leaning folk that Centrist or Centre-Left positioned people are repeatedly referred to as 'Right-Wing'. The truth is simply that there are quite a few traditional Labour supporters that are concerned about their party having been hijacked and it suits the hard-left to label them as right-wing
That it is commented upon so often does not make it anything other than untrue
Respectfully, I disagree. I consider myself left of centre, but miles away from the hard-left Momentum types you refer to. There are plenty of people on here who could easily be described as right-wing though. Assuming we’re talking about the same people, the fact that you think they are “centre-left” seems farcical to me.I genuinely do not think that there are many folk on here that could be accurately described as 'right-wing'.
It is just that the forum has such a strong cadre of 'hard-left' leaning folk that Centrist or Centre-Left positioned people are repeatedly referred to as 'Right-Wing'. The truth is simply that there are quite a few traditional Labour supporters that are concerned about their party having been hijacked and it suits the hard-left to label them as right-wing
That it is commented upon so often does not make it anything other than untrue
Depends if we are talking about the same people - and using similar yardsticks' to form an opinion.?Respectfully, I disagree. I consider myself left of centre, but miles away from the hard-left Momentum types you refer to. There are plenty of people on here who could easily be described as right-wing though. Assuming we’re talking about the same people, the fact that you think they are “centre-left” seems farcical to me.
The old notions of left and right have been recalibrated to such an extent that any debate along those lines is pretty meaningless.Depends if we are talking about the same people - and using similar yardsticks' to form an opinion.?
I would describe myself as 'centre-left' and - from your limited number of posts from which I am able to form an opinion - I would have guessed that you were 'further left' than 'centre-left'
I note from their posts people like @blueinsa and @Mëtal Bikër - and others - would likely see themselves as Centrist, but I see them and myself often referred to as 'right-wing' by those that are clearly 'hard-left' - for me that is just lazy jibes
It is easier to determine those that are outside the majority Centrist bands because they are more obvious and whether the centrists are deemed either left or right of centre is probably vulnerable to personal views/subjective. You might consider someone right of centre and I view the same person not so and equally I might view someone left of centre and you disagree with that.
If I was to think about regular posters that could be described as 'genuinely hard-right' - as opposed to 'slightly right of centre - then I can only think a of a small number indeed - and that number is utterly dwarfed by the large number of obviously strident 'hard-left' on here.
So - I guess the issue is that those that are 'towards the centre' - either left or right of centre are open to disagreement about on which side they fit so perhaps should be set to one side.
Then putting that probable majority to one side - to me it is 'off the scale obvious' that there is a major cadre of 'hard-left' on here and only a scant representation of 'hard-right' - I would genuinely consider that anyone that did not recognise that to be a fact was not being balanced in their assessment
I think that you describe it well and I share the frustration that so many of 'us centrist types' get labelled 'hard-right' as part of what appears to be an attempt to demean when it is just nonsense.It’s frustrating when you see stuff like that. While I’ll admit that many of us become less socialist as we get older, that doesn’t mean we’re all far-right nutters or fully paid up members of the Conservative party. Far from it. I did that political compass test thing the other week and it came out with me being slightly left of centre, and I reckon the majority of the country falls in the bracket of slightly left or slightly right of centre. That’s because - IMO - many of us aren’t fully entrenched in one camp and we have a mix of left and right wing views. In short, win the centre ground and you win the election.