Yuk!!!!
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Happy New Year Bigga!!! Hopefully we find it in our hearts to be nicer to each other despite our disagreements this year :)I'll give you this Dax, you'll have a go at explaining your position even if it's flawed in reasoning... er, to others.
Btw, don't think I ever forgot about our conversation a few months back! My computer went kaput the week after we talked with all my YEARS of info on policies and other stuff (I picked shit up out of interest if it caught my eye!), so I couldn't be arsed to try and get all that shit back!
It still rankles with me now that I've lost SO much work on that computer!! :(
Happy New Year to you, you strange man! ;)
@BluePhil8
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I don't want to sound rude but seeing as Trump won the televised debates against Hillary (a career shit talker) he'd absolutely torpedo Biden.My personal favorite should he/she be able to win election: Amy Klobuchar.
But, the election is going to be extremely close - I think that Joe Biden stands the best chance at displacing Trump - so I hope he's the nominee in spite of my preference otherwise.
Trump will hit low blows and there's too much material on Joe. Trump can just reference the creepy videos of Biden touching those little girls in a creepy as fuck way.
@BluePhil8
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Trevor Morley's Tache
Well-Known Member
Joe's a bit of a touchy feely kind of guy. I'm sure there is nothing more too it than that.
bumbleblue
Well-Known Member
They need whoever the fuck can beat the Donald.. and get behind him/her none of that ...Sanders folks not voting for Hilary bullshit. Save us all please ffs.
My nephew ( he is 7) can probably hang with Biden in a debate. It's like folks aren't watching.I don't want to sound rude but seeing as Trump won the televised debates against Hillary (a career shit talker) he'd absolutely torpedo Biden.
Trump will hit low blows and there's too much material on Joe. Trump can just reference the creepy videos of Biden touching those little girls in a creepy as fuck way.
Yang, Gabbard and Bernie are the only 3 who can hang with Trump in a debate. If not for baggage maybe Pete too. The others are being gassed up in the Dems debate with softies. They'd be slaughtered against Trump.
SebastianBlue
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Because of Trump’s vast intellect?My nephew ( he is 7) can probably hang with Biden in a debate. It's like folks aren't watching.
Yang, Gabbard and Bernie are the only 3 who can hang with Trump in a debate. If not for baggage maybe Pete too. The others are being gassed up in the Dems debate with softies. They'd be slaughtered against Trump.
Nah! His showmanship. He is good at these things. You may not like him and the MSN may belittle him as hard as they want. But he cleaned the floor with a veteran Republican field before smacking a seasoned Hilary Clinton around.Because of Trump’s vast intellect?
A bumbling Biden has no chance against him. And most of the others don't have a real message other than hoping the anti-Yrump fervor will carry them through. It won't.
Bernie has a script, he has been running it for 40 years. So it's hard to knock him off that. Andrew Yang is unique and so are his ideas. They are not the easily ridiculed cookie cutter ideas ideologues on either side parrot. And of all the candidates Gabbard is the most unflappable. She is as cool under pressure as they come.
Can't say much for any of the others.
SebastianBlue
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Genuine question: do you like Trump?Nah! His showmanship. He is good at these things. You may not like him and the MSN may belittle him as hard as they want. But he cleaned the floor with a veteran Republican field before smacking a seasoned Hilary Clinton around.
A bumbling Biden has no chance against him. And most of the others don't have a real message other than hoping the anti-Yrump fervor will carry them through. It won't.
Bernie has a script, he has been running it for 40 years. So it's hard to knock him off that. Andrew Yang is unique and so are his ideas. They are not the easily ridiculed cookie cutter ideas ideologues on either side parrot. And of all the candidates Gabbard is the most unflappable. She is as cool under pressure as they come.
Can't say much for any of the others.
Not particularly. No.Genuine question: do you like Trump?
That said, he is a good at debater. He is loud, boisterous and quick on his feet. He doesn't get flustered easily and he is a stage bully.
This facts are observable outside of whether you like or dislike him. Do you disagree?
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
I don't want to sound rude but seeing as Trump won the televised debates against Hillary (a career shit talker) he'd absolutely torpedo Biden.
You're entitled to your opinion. I hope you had a few drinks to drown your misery given United's 3-1 thrashing of City Tuesday also.
Debate 1: "Writing on September 28, FiveThirtyEight found that every scientific poll so far suggests that voters thought Hillary Clinton performed better than Donald Trump in the debate.[38] A CNN/ORC poll of debate viewers found that 62% believed Clinton won, compared to 27% for Trump.[39] A poll conducted by Public Policy Polling found that 51% thought Clinton won the debate, while 40% thought Trump won.[40] A YouGov poll found that 57% of Americans declared Clinton the winner, while 30% declared Trump the winner.[41] A Politico/Morning Consult poll showed that 49% of likely voters thought that Clinton won the debate, while 26% thought that Trump won, and 25% were undecided.[42] Echelon Insights polling showed that Clinton won the debate 48-22, and that the debate made 41% of respondents more likely to vote for Clinton while 29% were more likely to vote for Trump.[43] A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 56% of Americans thought Clinton did better, while 26% thought Trump did.[44] An NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll shows that 52% of likely voters who followed the debate chose Clinton was the winner, 21% chose Trump, and 26% did not choose either candidate.[45] A Gallup poll showed that more respondents thought Clinton did a better job than Trump by a margin of 61% to 27%.[46] A Fox News poll shows that 61% of respondents thought that Clinton won the debate while 21% said Trump did.[47] An ABC News/Washington Post poll shows that 53% of respondents thought that Clinton won the debate while 18% said Trump did.[48] A CBS News poll shows that 32% of likely voters say that they thought better of Clinton after watching the debate, but only 10% of voters said that they thought better of Trump afterward."
Debate 2: "A Politico/Morning Consult poll showed that 42% of respondents considered Clinton the winner of the debate, while 28% considered Trump the winner, and a slightly higher percentage (30%) were undecided.[82] A CNN/ORC poll found that 57% of viewers believed Clinton won, compared to 34% for Trump, despite the fact that most respondents felt that the latter exceeded expectations.[83] An NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll showed that Clinton won the debate with 44% to Trump's 34%, while 21% said neither won.[84] A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 53% of viewers said Clinton won while 32% said Trump won.[85] According to a Gallup poll, 53% of viewers considered Clinton to be the winner while 35% considered Trump the winner.[86] A Fox News poll of debate watchers found 52% considered Clinton the winner compared to 39% for Trump, with 9% saying they tied or did not know.[87] A Baldwin Wallace University Community Research Institute (CRI) poll of likely Ohio voters showed that 52% found that Clinton won the debate, 31% that Trump won, and 17% found that it was a tie.[88] According to a Qriously poll of likely voters in eight key battleground states, 44% gave the win to Clinton while 33% gave it to Trump.[89] According to a Fox 2 Detroit/Mitchell Poll of likely Michigan voters, 48% gave the win to Clinton while 36% gave it to Trump."
Debate 3: "A Morning Consult/Politico poll found that 43% of respondents considered Clinton the winner of the debate, with 26% saying Trump.[103] An NBC/SurveyMonkey poll showed that 46% of respondents considered Clinton as the winner, where as 37% considered Trump the winner.[104] An ABC News poll found that 52% of likely voters thought that Clinton was the winner, with 29% saying that Trump won the debate.[105] A Gallup poll showed that Clinton beat Trump 60% to 31% in perceptions of who won debate.[106] A poll by the CBS News Battleground Tracker of viewers in 13 swing states found that 49% of voters in those states thought that Clinton won the debate, while 39% thought Trump won, with 12% calling it a tie."
@BluePhil8
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Cool, all the polls also said Hillary was going to win by a landslide.You're entitled to your opinion. I hope you had a few drinks to drown your misery given United's 3-1 thrashing of City Tuesday also.
Debate 1: "Writing on September 28, FiveThirtyEight found that every scientific poll so far suggests that voters thought Hillary Clinton performed better than Donald Trump in the debate.[38] A CNN/ORC poll of debate viewers found that 62% believed Clinton won, compared to 27% for Trump.[39] A poll conducted by Public Policy Polling found that 51% thought Clinton won the debate, while 40% thought Trump won.[40] A YouGov poll found that 57% of Americans declared Clinton the winner, while 30% declared Trump the winner.[41] A Politico/Morning Consult poll showed that 49% of likely voters thought that Clinton won the debate, while 26% thought that Trump won, and 25% were undecided.[42] Echelon Insights polling showed that Clinton won the debate 48-22, and that the debate made 41% of respondents more likely to vote for Clinton while 29% were more likely to vote for Trump.[43] A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 56% of Americans thought Clinton did better, while 26% thought Trump did.[44] An NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll shows that 52% of likely voters who followed the debate chose Clinton was the winner, 21% chose Trump, and 26% did not choose either candidate.[45] A Gallup poll showed that more respondents thought Clinton did a better job than Trump by a margin of 61% to 27%.[46] A Fox News poll shows that 61% of respondents thought that Clinton won the debate while 21% said Trump did.[47] An ABC News/Washington Post poll shows that 53% of respondents thought that Clinton won the debate while 18% said Trump did.[48] A CBS News poll shows that 32% of likely voters say that they thought better of Clinton after watching the debate, but only 10% of voters said that they thought better of Trump afterward."
Debate 2: "A Politico/Morning Consult poll showed that 42% of respondents considered Clinton the winner of the debate, while 28% considered Trump the winner, and a slightly higher percentage (30%) were undecided.[82] A CNN/ORC poll found that 57% of viewers believed Clinton won, compared to 34% for Trump, despite the fact that most respondents felt that the latter exceeded expectations.[83] An NBC News/SurveyMonkey poll showed that Clinton won the debate with 44% to Trump's 34%, while 21% said neither won.[84] A Reuters/Ipsos poll found that 53% of viewers said Clinton won while 32% said Trump won.[85] According to a Gallup poll, 53% of viewers considered Clinton to be the winner while 35% considered Trump the winner.[86] A Fox News poll of debate watchers found 52% considered Clinton the winner compared to 39% for Trump, with 9% saying they tied or did not know.[87] A Baldwin Wallace University Community Research Institute (CRI) poll of likely Ohio voters showed that 52% found that Clinton won the debate, 31% that Trump won, and 17% found that it was a tie.[88] According to a Qriously poll of likely voters in eight key battleground states, 44% gave the win to Clinton while 33% gave it to Trump.[89] According to a Fox 2 Detroit/Mitchell Poll of likely Michigan voters, 48% gave the win to Clinton while 36% gave it to Trump."
Debate 3: "A Morning Consult/Politico poll found that 43% of respondents considered Clinton the winner of the debate, with 26% saying Trump.[103] An NBC/SurveyMonkey poll showed that 46% of respondents considered Clinton as the winner, where as 37% considered Trump the winner.[104] An ABC News poll found that 52% of likely voters thought that Clinton was the winner, with 29% saying that Trump won the debate.[105] A Gallup poll showed that Clinton beat Trump 60% to 31% in perceptions of who won debate.[106] A poll by the CBS News Battleground Tracker of viewers in 13 swing states found that 49% of voters in those states thought that Clinton won the debate, while 39% thought Trump won, with 12% calling it a tie."
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
Cool, all the polls also said Hillary was going to win by a landslide.
I think just maybe you are missing the point, chief.
SebastianBlue
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I’m honestly dumbfounded by your assessment.Not particularly. No.
That said, he is a good at debater. He is loud, boisterous and quick on his feet. He doesn't get flustered easily and he is a stage bully.
This facts are observable outside of whether you like or dislike him. Do you disagree?
Loud and boisterous anyone will give you. But so is my dog and he’ll not be elected president any time soon (though, against Trump he’d have a decent chance).
But, unless you occupy an alternate universe to the one most of us call home, calling Trump quick on his feet and not easily flustered makes me question your sanity. Nearly all evidence is to the extreme opposite — Trump struggles to find a coherent phrase with two hands and a torch, can barely read much less form sophisticated thoughts of his own, and is so easily baited that half of his presidential comments have been direct, juvenile responses to media trolls and perceived conspiracies against him. He’s cancelled meetings, summits, and executive actions merely because he felt personally slighted by another participant in them (or felt they didn’t show *enough* loyalty to him by defending him in that particular situation). He acts (out) like a child literally any time he doesn’t get his way, ramifications for the US be dammed, and has been described by many, many people of various affiliations to him as one of the dumbest people they’ve ever known.
Most pundits, analyst political strategists, pollsters, and vox pop interviews in 2016 leading up to the election had Hillary winning the debates. Nearly all were based on individual analysis or general public sentiment. He “won” many of the Republican debates for the same reason he was able to get so many Republican votes, and that’s not anything to be happy about, unless you are one desperate for fascism to take hold again. General debates are very different to the party circuses and he has and will continue to get trounced in those.
The issue is it may not matter, as the cult and pervasive foreign assistance, which were the major drivers getting him elected in 2016, may be too strong for any Democrat, however suitable, qualified, and popular, to overcome. That renders winning debates and, in some states, his opponent getting more votes, meaningless. He could lose every general debate (which he very likely will given his cognitive functions look to be degrading by the day) and still win in 2020 if the election rigging is as pervasive as some studies and election systems audits show it could be.
As others have said, Trump is more than just a ****ing imbecile — he is a child, a sexual predator, a criminal, a despot, *and* a very, very fortunate imbecile who has been given second chance after second chance long after the rest of us would have been shown the gutter, many of which were designed to capture and manipulate a simpleton in to carrying out the bidding of others (Deutsche Bank lending, various nonsensical business deals, current Trump property patronage, etc.).
Quick on his feet?
Not easily flustered?
YCMIU
In fairness the votes on the debates was about judging what had happened. Polling is about judging what will happen in future. They are slightly different. But I get your underlying point. The polls may be weighted poorly overall.Cool, all the polls also said Hillary was going to win by a landslide.
You agree mostly with my claims. 1) loud and boisterous- Check.I’m honestly dumbfounded by your assessment.
Loud and boisterous anyone will give you. But so is my dog and he’ll not be elected president any time soon (though, against Trump he’d have a decent chance).
But, unless you occupy an alternate universe to the one most of us call home, calling Trump quick on his feet and not easily flustered makes me question your sanity. Nearly all evidence is to the extreme opposite — Trump struggles to find a coherent phrase with two hands and a torch, can barely read much less form sophisticated thoughts of his own, and is so easily baited that half of his presidential comments have been direct, juvenile responses to media trolls and perceived conspiracies against him. He’s cancelled meetings, summits, and executive actions merely because he felt personally slighted by another participant in them (or felt they didn’t show *enough* loyalty to him by defending him in that particular situation). He acts (out) like a child literally any time he doesn’t get his way, ramifications for the US be dammed, and has been described by many, many people of various affiliations to him as one of the dumbest people they’ve ever known.
Most pundits, analyst political strategists, pollsters, and vox pop interviews in 2016 leading up to the election had Hillary winning the debates. Nearly all were based on individual analysis or general public sentiment. He “won” many of the Republican debates for the same reason he was able to get so many Republican votes, and that’s not anything to be happy about, unless you are one desperate for fascism to take hold again. General debates are very different to the party circuses and he has and will continue to get trounced in those.
The issue is it may not matter, as the cult and pervasive foreign assistance, which were the major drivers getting him elected in 2016, may be too strong for any Democrat, however suitable, qualified, and popular, to overcome. That renders winning debates and, in some states, his opponent getting more votes, meaningless. He could lose every general debate (which he very likely will given his cognitive functions look to be degrading by the day) and still win in 2020 if the election rigging is as pervasive as some studies and election systems audits show it could be.
As others have said, Trump is more than just a ****ing imbecile — he is a child, a sexual predator, a criminal, a despot, *and* a very, very fortunate imbecile who has been given second chance after second chance long after the rest of us would have been shown the gutter, many of which were designed to capture and manipulate a simpleton in to carrying out the bidding of others (Deutsche Bank lending, various nonsensical business deals, current Trump property patronage, etc.).
Quick on his feet?
Not easily flustered?
YCMIU
Then you proceeded to discuss a myriad of issues unrelated to his performance on the debate stage: Can't read, can't form a coherent thought, acts like a child, etc..
Then when you finally got to the debates: Most analyst thought Hilary won, and he 'won' the Republican debates because ????????? You never actually say. I suppose coz Republicans are stupid?
Like I said, you are confusing your feelings for him with the facts on debating. Stylistically, most of the Dems are at a disadvantage. But believe what you want. Free country and all that :)
SebastianBlue
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I honestly don’t know what to do with this response, Dax. It makes no sense.In fairness the votes on the debates was about judging what had happened. Polling is about judging what will happen in future. They are slightly different. But I get your underlying point. The polls may be weighted poorly overall.
You agree mostly with my claims. 1) loud and boisterous- Check.
Then you proceeded to discuss a myriad of issues unrelated to his performance on the debate stage: Can't read, can't form a coherent thought, acts like a child, etc..
Then when you finally got to the debates: Most analyst thought Hilary won, and he 'won' the Republican debates because ????????? You never actually say. I suppose coz Republicans are stupid?
Like I said, you are confusing your feelings for him with the facts on debating. Stylistically, most of the Dems are at a disadvantage. But believe what you want. Free country and all that :)
Trump the debater vs. Trump the man. You can separate the 2.I honestly don’t know what to do with this response, Dax. It makes no sense.
Trump has bettered more knowledgeable opponents on stage several times. To deny this is practically delusional. And no, it's not coz Republicans are dumber than you.
He does well on stage. Perhaps it the narcissist in him or the bully in him or the petulant child. Whatever it is, helps him do better in debates than his knowledge suggests he should.
Perhaps you missed it, but he became the bloody President partly because of his debate performances... And this is inspite of being clearly less knowledgeable than practically the entire field.
What am I missing here :?
FogBlueInSanFran
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you missed it, but he became the bloody President partly because of his debate performances... And this is inspite of being clearly less knowledgeable than practically the entire field.
“Practically” is an unnecessary modifier in this case.
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SebastianBlue
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If you think he is “quick on his feet” and “not easily flustered”, in debates or otherwise, despite mountains of evidence to the contrary (from 2016 and after). And if you think he became president in large part because of his debate performances against Hillary or that he is likely to objectively beat any of the Democratic Party candidates in a direct debate, then there is no reason to continue to discuss this.Trump the debater vs. Trump the man. You can separate the 2.
Trump has bettered more knowledgeable opponents on stage several times. To deny this is practically delusional. And no, it's not coz Republicans are dumber than you.
He does well on stage. Perhaps it the narcissist in him or the bully in him or the petulant child. Whatever it is, helps him do better in debates than his knowledge suggests he should.
Perhaps you missed it, but he became the bloody President partly because of his debate performances... And this is inspite of being clearly less knowledgeable than practically the entire field.
What am I missing here :?
We live in different universes — and I have to say, it’s especially ironic that you assert that I am confusing my feelings for him with the facts on debating.
I await your version of “no, you’re the puppet! You’re the puppet!!!” as you sullenly lurk behind me wishing you could just punch me and be done with the debate.