Another new Brexit thread

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Gaudion M said:
That is a bit long but anything covering all the reasons why Johnson is BS the people about getting this done in a year and it all being a simple trade deal is going to be a long read.
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Johnson deals in simple messages that his target audience can understand. However, as those of us capable of critical thought know, nothing is as simple as Johnson makes out.

I'm not even sure Johnson understands, he's not known for understanding detail.

But whether lies or ignorance he is leading the country down a very rocky path.
 
west didsblue said:
Hopefully the government will just lube up and accept BRINO. It's the only thing that doesn't fuck us over completely. It could be dressed up as regulatory alignment for key sectors (without mentioning that it covers 95% of them), a UK/EU Customs agreement (that doesn't mention the word union but to all intents and purposes is one) and a Rules of Origin agreement to treat the UK and EU as one entity (to be lost in the small print).
They can then lie and tell the gullible how we've secured everything that the Brexiters hold dear. No doubt the right wing press will aid and abet them in this.
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When you look at the scale of the mess to sort out it is an easy assumption that they will go for total capitulation (alignment on everything) with maximum spin and a whole knew lexicon of meaningless language that implies one thing when the converse is true. A disinformation campaign a bit like Trump and his fantastic wall that he has built.
 
Gaudion M said:
When you look at the scale of the mess to sort out it is an easy assumption that they will go for total capitulation (alignment on everything) with maximum spin and a whole knew lexicon of meaningless language that implies one thing when the converse is true. A disinformation campaign a bit like Trump and his fantastic wall that he has built.
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He has got form for it, he's convinced them all he negotiated a brilliant new WA that couldn't be done. When in reality it was an old off the shelf offer no P.M . could accept or so he said, that was already hanging around gathering dust.
 
mcfc1632 said:
So many (an more) posts on the passport colour.

If there is one thing that comes across as more desperate from Remainers than trying to suggest that Leavers are so simple-minded that Brexit is all about Passport colour - it is repetitive regurgitation of that crap
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Well that and Brexit bongs.
 
BobKowalski said:
Well that and Brexit bongs.
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If it's not passports and bongs, the only thing I've seen anyone mention that's actually tangible was @hgblue wanting to see improvements following getting out of the CAP. Has anyone else got anything tangible to suggest what it's all about and what they want to see as a result of Brexit?
 
west didsblue said:
If it's not passports and bongs, the only thing I've seen anyone mention that's actually tangible was @hgblue wanting to see improvements following getting out of the CAP. Has anyone else got anything tangible to suggest what it's all about and what they want to see as a result of Brexit?
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Here’s one from me.

Although I’m not personally affected as I’m past retirement age and still working it does affect millions of lower paid workers. Freedom of movement combined with extremely poor Eastern European countries joining the EU has resulted in huge waves of unskilled, cheap, flexible workers flooding into the UK. This has been the main driver of agency working / zero hours contracts as employers have had a more or less unlimited supply of this type of labour.

When I look at the industry I sell into I see that the skilled jobs are still overwhelmingly held by British workers but all the low & non skilled jobs are now taken by Eastern European agency workers. 20 years ago these jobs were permanent and taken by local workers.

You can’t blame employers for taking advantage of this abundant supply of cheap labour but it has driven down wages at the very bottom of the labour food chain.
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
Here’s one from me.

Although I’m not personally affected as I’m past retirement age and still working it does affect millions of lower paid workers. Freedom of movement combined with extremely poor Eastern European countries joining the EU has resulted in huge waves of unskilled, cheap, flexible workers flooding into the UK. This has been the main driver of agency working / zero hours contracts as employers have had a more or less unlimited supply of this type of labour.

When I look at the industry I sell into I see that the skilled jobs are still overwhelmingly held by British workers but all the low & non skilled jobs are now taken by Eastern European agency workers. 20 years ago these jobs were permanent and taken by local workers.

You can’t blame employers for taking advantage of this abundant supply of cheap labour but it has driven down wages at the very bottom of the labour food chain.
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Thanks for that.

I fear that your hope for many of these jobs becoming higher paid and taken up by UK workers is unlikely to happen. If the supply of cheap EU labour becomes limited, the government will open the door wider to the rest of the world and the pay will stay the same. Many of the jobs you're talking about are in the care and hospitality industries, both of which have depended for decades on workers from around the world. I also fail to understand why anyone would think a Johnson led Tory government will do much for those at the bottom end of the food chain, irrespective of the EU.
 
west didsblue said:
Thanks for that.

I fear that your hope for many of these jobs becoming higher paid and taken up by UK workers is unlikely to happen. If the supply of cheap EU labour becomes limited, the government will open the door wider to the rest of the world and the pay will stay the same. Many of the jobs you're talking about are in the care and hospitality industries, both of which have depended for decades on workers from around the world. I also fail to understand why anyone would think a Johnson led Tory government will do much for those at the bottom end of the food chain, irrespective of the EU.
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This is something i never understood. people who go on about cheap labour from Europe driving wages down are the same people who say we should be welcoming people from all over the world. Whilst I get the logic behind not discriminating against people because they're EU or not, a) we could always do that, and b) are people from outside the EU only going to come on higher wages from those in the EU? It's batshit.
 
west didsblue said:
Thanks for that.

I fear that your hope for many of these jobs becoming higher paid and taken up by UK workers is unlikely to happen. If the supply of cheap EU labour becomes limited, the government will open the door wider to the rest of the world and the pay will stay the same. Many of the jobs you're talking about are in the care and hospitality industries, both of which have depended for decades on workers from around the world. I also fail to understand why anyone would think a Johnson led Tory government will do much for those at the bottom end of the food chain, irrespective of the EU.
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Would be the first tory government ever to do so, ever ever, .Never have and never will, the centuries past are concrete proof of what they stand for. Bastards...
 
BobKowalski said:
Well that and Brexit bongs.
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Can't wait

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Ardwick Green Blue said:
Here’s one from me.

Although I’m not personally affected as I’m past retirement age and still working it does affect millions of lower paid workers. Freedom of movement combined with extremely poor Eastern European countries joining the EU has resulted in huge waves of unskilled, cheap, flexible workers flooding into the UK. This has been the main driver of agency working / zero hours contracts as employers have had a more or less unlimited supply of this type of labour.

When I look at the industry I sell into I see that the skilled jobs are still overwhelmingly held by British workers but all the low & non skilled jobs are now taken by Eastern European agency workers. 20 years ago these jobs were permanent and taken by local workers.

You can’t blame employers for taking advantage of this abundant supply of cheap labour but it has driven down wages at the very bottom of the labour food chain.
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Incorrect. EU countries can and do ban zero hour contracts. The U.K. labour market is the way it is because that is the way successive U.K. Govts have designed it. During the last decade the only EU countries that saw wages decline in real terms was us and Greece. All other EU countries saw wage growth. FOM does not impact on wages. Domestic industrial and labour policy impacts wages.

Additionally we have been importing labour to do lower paid jobs for over a century be they Irish, Caribbean or Eastern European. Lastly Europeans generally do not see FOM as immigration anymore than we see Scots or Welsh working in England as ‘immigration’.
 
west didsblue said:
Thanks for that.

I fear that your hope for many of these jobs becoming higher paid and taken up by UK workers is unlikely to happen. If the supply of cheap EU labour becomes limited, the government will open the door wider to the rest of the world and the pay will stay the same. Many of the jobs you're talking about are in the care and hospitality industries, both of which have depended for decades on workers from around the world. I also fail to understand why anyone would think a Johnson led Tory government will do much for those at the bottom end of the food chain, irrespective of the EU.
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I sell into a manufacturing industry and the low & unskilled jobs weren’t done by migrants before the influx of cheap Eastern European labour.

If Johnson allows unlimited inflows of unskilled labour then he’s done for. Immigration policy needs to address areas of skill shortages or specific areas like agriculture and so on.
 
Ardwick Green Blue said:
I sell into a manufacturing industry and the low & unskilled jobs weren’t done by migrants before the influx of cheap Eastern European labour.

If Johnson allows unlimited inflows of unskilled labour then he’s done for. Immigration policy needs to address areas of skill shortages or specific areas like agriculture and so on.
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Rightly or wrongly our economy is so entangled with the EU though, and the world has changed, so it's not simply a case of being able to flick a switch and we can go back to the halcyon days before the EU. It's folly to think otherwise.
 
joe123 said:
Rightly or wrongly our economy is so entangled with the EU though, and the world has changed, so it's not simply a case of being able to flick a switch and we can go back to the halcyon days before the EU. It's folly to think otherwise.
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Nevertheless a solution will have to be found and somewhere in the dark a switch will exist. The whole point of Brexit is to untangle ourselves from the EU not just accept it and say we can't do it because it's so hard.
It's happening and we need to get on board bot just say it's too hard because I don't want it to happen.
 
joe123 said:
Rightly or wrongly our economy is so entangled with the EU though, and the world has changed, so it's not simply a case of being able to flick a switch and we can go back to the halcyon days before the EU. It's folly to think otherwise.
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Clearly not as we’ve been in it since 1973. However that doesn’t mean we have to stay in it forever and as we aren’t then we will see where that takes us.
 
mexico1970 said:
Nevertheless a solution will have to be found and somewhere in the dark a switch will exist. The whole point of Brexit is to untangle ourselves from the EU not just accept it and say we can't do it because it's so hard.
It's happening and we need to get on board bot just say it's too hard because I don't want it to happen.
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In the end I don't think we will untangle, because it is too difficult. We'll just find new names for the tangle.
 
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