Another new Brexit thread

[Metal Biker]

Are japan subject to the ECJ as part of their deal?

I will give you a clue it begins with N

And Canada's trade deal CETA (that the ECJ states is compatible) eliminates 98% of tariffs between the two powers.

I'd be most happy with 98%.

 

[Metal Biker]

To be fair I think many remainers would be happy to take a Norway thpe arrangement under EFTA. Those most against it seem to be in government unfortunately, and Farage now though he used to be for it. And some would say we were still under the jurisdiction of a ‘european court’

EFTA?

Pfft, stupid idea.

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

From what I read in the Telegraph last night and after listening to Raab on Marr I would say that both sides will get to the point of agreeing the basic outlines of a deal very quickly or the negotiations will collapse more or less as soon as they begin.

Makes sense really as there is a very short period to make an agreement so months of halfhearted foreplay is not required.

 

[dave_blue12]

The worrying thing is they're not going anywhere.
And if it all goes tits up they'll be looking for scapegoats.
And we know what that means.
We've been here before in history.

Brexit has been a focus for angry old men who are struggling with their place in the world. They will continue to be angry and take out their feelings of inadequacy on any convenient target.
They need therapy not Brexit.

 

[blueparrot]

EFTA?

Pfft, stupid idea.

Unfortunately that's what our government think. So we get what we are given.

 

[The perfect fumble]

Call him Dave.
He once embraced one nation conservatism and the truly liberal concept of the 'big society'.
Where did it all go wrong?

It's because he was weak and he was lying.

 

[Len Rum]

Brexit has been a focus for angry old men who are struggling with their place in the world. They will continue to be angry and take out their feelings of inadequacy on any convenient target.
They need therapy not Brexit.

True, there's lots of them on this forum.
But the problem is that in that video clip the men are young.
And they've been given a nod and a wink from the top that their behaviour is acceptable.

 

[Metal Biker]

Unfortunately that's what our government think. So we get what we are given.

Maybe we could have had those who voted remain mentioning, nay demanding EFTA to them, ensuring it as the most popular choice if we were leaving. Citing the merits of EFTA to the leave voters and how any "Farageist" fears about it being "still a part of the EU" as false (as even Farage didn't think that was the case) would have swayed the Government as it would have shown it was the preferred leaving option for remainers.

But no, they didn't bother, it was all about rejecting leaving entirely so now the Government won't consider it.

 

[The perfect fumble]

We've not had a good national humiliation since Suez. And Eden's folly then was what really prompted Britain to take a realistic view of our place in the world. And "being Greece to America's role" didn't appeal then though.

The echoes can be heard today in the expansive rhetoric of Boris Johnson and Michael Gove, Conservative leaders of the Leave campaign. To restore itself to global leadership all Britain needs to do is unshackle itself from Brussels.

Macmillan dismissed this as nostalgia before Messrs Johnson and Gove were born. “In the past, as a great maritime power, we might give way to insular feelings of superiority over foreign breeds . . . But we have to consider the state of the world as it is today and will be tomorrow, and not in outdated terms of a vanished past,” he said. “Foreign breeds” is not a phrase a politician could use today, but it captured the assumption of superiority that still infuses the arguments of Tory nationalists.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.ft.com/content/a7461e66-2e3b-11e6-a18d-a96ab29e3c95

You mean Greece to America’s Rome, that's not going to happen now, more likely a rapid descent to 51st State. We've already been scolded to get in step behind Trump on Iran or the mythical US/UK trade deal won't be so "massive".

 

[blueparrot]

Maybe we could have had those who voted remain mentioning, nay demanding EFTA to them, ensuring it as the most popular choice if we were leaving. Citing the merits of EFTA to the leave voters and how any "Farageist" fears about it being "still a part of the EU" as false (as even Farage didn't think that was the case) would have swayed the Government as it would have shown it was the preferred leaving option for remainers.

But no, they didn't bother, it was all about rejecting leaving entirely so now the Government won't consider it.

They never were. Johnson / Cummings alway had their own plan whatever anyone in the country thinks. Thats why he went with his simple get brexit done , oven ready campaign, no plan or vision was let out because he could get away with it.Corbyn allowed that. Don't think for a moment what football fans on a forum think has the slightest influence on them.

 

[Vic]

The Justice Court of the United Kingdom and Europe. Perhaps?

It will be like a lot of Brexit. Just change the words and stay the same. The government have treated the public like they are thick for the past 4 years so there is no reason why they will change now

Joint United International Court, Europe.

We'll get squeezed.

 

[west didsblue]

come now len you have said many times farage Johnson and the myriad of leavers are liars and charlatans . Why would you suddenly start to measure success against what those lying bastards told us.

surely a better measure of success for you would be measure the success of brexit against all the expert predictions you and your pals endlessly posted on here.

huge unemployment
Deep recession
Companies leaving the uk
Financial institutions flocking from London
No drugs
Companies Can’t import or export goods into the eu , due to your favourite phrase , non-tariff barriers.

Tell me will brexit be a success for you if all this comes true or if it doesn’t ?

which would you prefer?

So the measure of success is that it isn’t a complete fucking disaster!

Just a bit shit is fine then?

 

[Metal Biker]

They never were. Johnson / Cummings alway had their own plan whatever anyone in the country thinks. Thats why he went with his simple get brexit done , oven ready campaign, no plan or vision was let out because he could get away with it.Corbyn allowed that. Don't think for a moment what football fans on a forum think has the slightest influence on them.

I...didn't. I was talking nationally, not the users on this forum.

If there were a national movement to get behind an option, the Government would follow it, because they'd see it as a vote winner at the next GE. This entire debate was dominated by the extremes. Remainers didn't spend any time or effort advocating EFTA, so it's pointless any of them trying to now in an attempt to avoid a Johnson style leave.

 

[Vic]

Unfortunately that's what our government think. So we get what we are given.

Read the FT article I posted earlier. EFTA was dismissed as a poor idea 60 years ago (compared to joining the real thing).

 

[Vic]

Maybe we could have had those who voted remain mentioning, nay demanding EFTA to them, ensuring it as the most popular choice if we were leaving. Citing the merits of EFTA to the leave voters and how any "Farageist" fears about it being "still a part of the EU" as false (as even Farage didn't think that was the case) would have swayed the Government as it would have shown it was the preferred leaving option for remainers.

But no, they didn't bother, it was all about rejecting leaving entirely so now the Government won't consider it.

That really is nonsense.

I always assumed that EFTA was the only way we'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.

Even I'm fed up saying it but people keep saying stuff that demands it.

 

[west didsblue]

Remainers who argue that leaving will be damaging economically are probably right.

Good job we’re getting all that extra sovereignty then.
Can someone tell me what that means in practice and what positive effect it will have on our lives? Just one example will do.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Good job we’re getting all that extra sovereignty then.
Can someone tell me what that means in practice and what positive effect it will have on our lives? Just one example will do.

ok one example . You know those billions we give to the eu each year , which the eu decide where to invest around Europe, well that money we don’t have to give them anymore and we as a sovereign state can decide where to invest our money from now on instead within the uk.

let me know if you would like anymore examples

 

[west didsblue]

ok one example . You know those billions we give to the eu each year , which the eu decide where to invest around Europe, well that money we don’t have to give them anymore and we as a sovereign state can decide where to invest our money from now on instead within the uk.

let me know if you would like anymore examples

Tell me that one again after the trade deal is done (or not done) and we have found out if that money really is no longer being handed over.

 

[yerwot?]

ok one example . You know those billions we give to the eu each year , which the eu decide where to invest around Europe, well that money we don’t have to give them anymore and we as a sovereign state can decide where to invest our money from now on instead within the uk.

let me know if you would like anymore examples

That is spoken for ,have another go

 

[bluethrunthru]