Another new Brexit thread

[Saddleworth2]

One for everyone here. Maybe other than Corbyn supporters.

 

[west didsblue]

I did actually say they had better arguments than those that call the show.

The people that call the show talk about three-pronged plugs and bendy bananas.

The arguments on here about a further federal Europe and the ability to actually leave the bloc in future are seemingly looking to be true.

The fact that the economy is predicted to outgrow the Eurozone proves some were correct.

Debating the likes of these two examples is better than what JOB has to contend with.

In response to the Leaver points you raise.
I agree that it is clear that closer integration is an aim of the EU and this will gradually happen for those members that want it. While we were members it was also becoming clear that the appetite for this was not universal and it was looking like there would be a two speed Europe with us in the slow lane. We had already opted out of the Euro and Schengen, and were unlikely to be part of a European Army although we do participate in joint operations. Basically we had the best of both worlds, a single market on our doorstep where we had to follow the trade rules but where we had opted out of the more contentious political aspects, with guarantees that we couldn't be forced to participate in due course.
I would totally disagree about the reduced ability to leave the bloc. The Article 50 provision was actually brought in by Lisbon which actually clarified the Leave process.
The fact that our economy was predicted to outgrow the Eurozone is actually irrelevant as we're not part of it. Not sure that prediction is actually the case now, but I suspect it will be totally dependent on what trade deal we end up with.

 

[inbetween]

So tell us how the UK will replicate EASA.

Why do we need to replicate EASA?? EASA didn't exist until 15 years ago when they took over European aviation and started overtaking country regulatory bodies by for example standardising runway markings and alsorts of rubbish.

The UK CAA is today the UK aviation regulatory body and it still will be after Brexit. The only thing the CAA will do differently is it will make rules and not take them.

We can remain a part of EASA either as some sort of 3rd country member (if they allow us to be, Norway is!) or at least as a participatory in some form because it is just common sense.

In the worst case, we should be able to negotiate technical cooperations and agreements that facilitate normality as most major non-EU countries have done.

Obviously the downfall is we won't have a say on European aviation rules but European aviation does not exist in a space where planes only fly because of the existence of EU rulemaking........

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

Why? We are in a transition phase and as such still qualify to live and work in the EU and when we dont at the end of that transition phase they will update their ads as seen in the article.

No one is stopping anyone applying for the roles advertised.

So .... you think Ryan Air (as tight as they are ) are going to onboard an employee , train them for months on the chance that the Eu will allow freedom of movement and the ability to work after the transition period without reciprocity from the UK?

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Why do we need to replicate EASA?? EASA didn't exist until 15 years ago when they took over European aviation and started overtaking country regulatory bodies by for example standardising runway markings and alsorts of rubbish.

The UK CAA is today the UK aviation regulatory body and it still will be after Brexit. The only thing the CAA will do differently is it will make rules and not take them.

We can remain a part of EASA either as some sort of 3rd country member (if they allow us to be, Norway is!) or at least as a participatory in some form because it is just common sense.

In the worst case, we should be able to negotiate technical cooperations and agreements that facilitate normality as most major non-EU countries have done.

Obviously the downfall is we won't have a say on European aviation rules but European aviation does not exist in a space where planes only fly because of the existence of EU rulemaking........

Why did you bother with that?. You may as well told him that the eu have a built a huge wall around the eu , all the way to the moon and planes and trading cannot take place outside of those walls unless the eu allow you too.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

So .... you think Ryan Air (as tight as they are ) are going to onboard an employee , train them for months on the chance that the Eu will allow freedom of movement and the ability to work after the transition period without reciprocity from the UK?

no

do you think Ryanair are going to make redundant all of their current British pilots that they have. Or do O’Leary’s concerns only apply to new pilots not existing ones? THink before you post please.

it’s a political stunt by a ****.

in other news today Ryanair have been told by the ASA to stop saying they are the most environmentally airline as it’s not true.

do you think the two things may be linked to avoid focus on the real story.

 

[mcfc1632]

Says the man who said we didn’t need an Irish border and that it was a just dastardly plot to ensure we stayed in the EU.

And then we put an internal customs border in the Irish Sea.

Well apart your post being generally incorrect...…..

FWIW - given that a lot of people do not bother with facts, the facts are:

1. Yes I did indeed post many time that there was not need for the UK to take responsibility for implementing a hard border along the ROI border. I was clear that there was not need and that if there was to be such a border introduced then we should leave it to Ireland to implement at the EU behest.

So, yes I was proven to be wholly correct

2. Months before the WA agreed by Johnson I stated that the outcome would be the Irish Sea border

So, yes I was proven to be wholly correct on that one as well.

Anyway - as there is a tendency for some posters to get locked into 'camps' and to show that I see myself as more objective - I post the following article which I feel you would have a lot of empathy with

http://eureferendum.com/blogview.aspx?blogno=87508 ​

 

[blueinsa]

So .... you think Ryan Air (as tight as they are ) are going to onboard an employee , train them for months on the chance that the Eu will allow freedom of movement and the ability to work after the transition period without reciprocity from the UK?

I'm saying the airline industry employs engineers, pilots, cabin crew that travel across the globe on a daily basis and are based out of countries and airports the world over to satisfy operational needs.

Us leaving the fucking EU isn't going to change that.

 

[Ban-jani]

In response to the Leaver points you raise.
I agree that it is clear that closer integration is an aim of the EU and this will gradually happen for those members that want it. While we were members it was also becoming clear that the appetite for this was not universal and it was looking like there would be a two speed Europe with us in the slow lane. We had already opted out of the Euro and Schengen, and were unlikely to be part of a European Army although we do participate in joint operations. Basically we had the best of both worlds, a single market on our doorstep where we had to follow the trade rules but where we had opted out of the more contentious political aspects, with guarantees that we couldn't be forced to participate in due course.
I would totally disagree about the reduced ability to leave the bloc. The Article 50 provision was actually brought in by Lisbon which actually clarified the Leave process.
The fact that our economy was predicted to outgrow the Eurozone is actually irrelevant as we're not part of it. Not sure that prediction is actually the case now, but I suspect it will be totally dependent on what trade deal we end up with.

I agree on the two lane pace and the opt outs we have, I’m still a supporter of remain despite accepting Brexit and trying to forget the last few years to move on.

I have gained an appreciation of those that dislike the EU though and my view was always that if we can save the economy then I’m happy to leave. The EU as a construct is something I don’t particularly like but it has achieved many great things and has been a force for peace on the continent.

My point about making it harder is based on some rhetoric coming out of the EU parliament, several MEPs have recently stated “we shouldn’t allow this to happen again”. Now I appreciate you’ll likely say that they could be meaning to address discontent within the nations of the EU but to me the general sense on this, to Brexit, has been a little sinister.

 

[BobKowalski]

Why? We are in a transition phase and as such still qualify to live and work in the EU and when we dont at the end of that transition phase they will update their ads as seen in the article.

No one is stopping anyone applying for the roles advertised.

I suspect any measures taken by Ryan Air against the British will be as much about the British Govt bailing out Flybe than anything else.

On a seperate note when it comes, for example, to service contracts where FoM is needed then the transition period of 11 months is of little use. If you were a UK based company with EU interests that requires people to visit on a regular basis then an EU National with UK settled status would be a more prudent hire given there is no guarantee a British national will retain that right in January 2021.

 

[BobKowalski]

I will ad the Ryanair job advert isn't very fair on potential applicants from the rest of the world but that's not an issue for those who cry discrimination and racism the most is it?

Discrimination based on nationality is common. You can ban a country’s citizens on security or health grounds for example but you cannot ban on race or religious grounds. You can also bar foreign nationals working in certain industries on security grounds. I think France still bans non EU nationals from working in many State sectors.

 

[mcfc1632]

I do and I quite like his show.

They definitely screen through nutters though, like every radio phone in.

It’s quite amusing listening to someone who struggles to string a sentence together whinging about three-pronged plugs no longer being allowed if we stay in.

At the risk of blowing smoke up the arses of cunts on here, yes you’re all cunts, the leavers have better arguments on this forum than anyone I’ve heard on there.

JOB is alright though, he’s a smart guy and has the tools necessary to debate (ie the internet in front of him), if not a little stuck up and egotistical.

If I have the chance I listen to his Q&A show on a Thursday (I think) - otherwise I view him as an absolute knob

 

[Ban-jani]

no

do you think Ryanair are going to make redundant all of their current British pilots that they have. Or do O’Leary’s concerns only apply to new pilots not existing ones? THink before you post please.

it’s a political stunt by a ****.

in other news today Ryanair have been told by the ASA to stop saying they are the most environmentally airline as it’s not true.

do you think the two things may be linked to avoid focus on the real story.

O’Leary has previously said he’d punish people for Brexit.

He’s another Mike Ashley.

 

[mcfc1632]

My honest opinion , you are the only troll on here.

Really - have you got mirrors in your house?

You do not come one here that often. Invariably when you do you make a post like this attacking me - I guess because you are seeking to provoke/goad me into a personal argument with you.

No thanks - I have better things to do.

 

[Saddleworth2]

I've listened to O'Brien a few times and he winds me up because generally any argument he can't win over through facts or moral superiority is just countered with "why are you bothered?" or an attempt to prove stupidity.

He can't accept an opinion whether informed or not, that is his problem. In fact that is the problem with the left and remainers as a whole.

That failing is why both groups have lost every single democratic exercise for the last decade.

I just don’t get that from listening to him. I listen to him three or four times a week while I’m In the gym and I think he is fairer to people than most. His style is to mirror back words and comments and ask what they mean (many don’t get past that) and then ask for facts to back it up (even more fail with that one). He certainly accepts informed opinion and opinion backed up with facts. Now I accept that it’s possible that they filter folk coming on but you would have thought that some would get through that can give as good as they get. Sadly not whilst I have been listening.

 

[Ban-jani]

If I have the chance I listen to his Q&A show on a Thursday (I think) - otherwise I view him as an absolute knob

He has improved over the last 5-6 years.

I always remember him getting battered by Lampard over the phone, live on air. He was slagging Lampard off for his relationship ending and his kids living away from him in an apartment, without knowing any of the facts.

Lampard actually rang in and gave him hell but you could hear the arrogance, smugness and self-entitlement pouring out of him.

He’s much better now.

 

[Vic]

Why do we need to replicate EASA?? EASA didn't exist until 15 years ago when they took over European aviation and started overtaking country regulatory bodies by for example standardising runway markings and alsorts of rubbish.

The UK CAA is today the UK aviation regulatory body and it still will be after Brexit. The only thing the CAA will do differently is it will make rules and not take them.

We can remain a part of EASA either as some sort of 3rd country member (if they allow us to be, Norway is!) or at least as a participatory in some form because it is just common sense.

In the worst case, we should be able to negotiate technical cooperations and agreements that facilitate normality as most major non-EU countries have done.

Obviously the downfall is we won't have a say on European aviation rules but European aviation does not exist in a space where planes only fly because of the existence of EU rulemaking........

Common sense, you say....

The CAA doesn't do now what EASA does, although they say they're ready: "to take on new functions, some of which are currently delivered by EASA. The CAA has implemented plans to fulfil these functions should they be needed following the end of the transition period. As an example, the CAA has created the capability required for the UK to fulfil State of Design responsibilities independently of EASA should that be needed." (At a cost - to whom? - of having to replicate just for the UK what EASA now does with the costs shared between all participating countries.)

Here's the CAA's list of what they assume happens if we have no deal:

• The UK leaves the EU at 11 pm on 31 January 2020.
• Through the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018, all European aviation laws are adopted at the point of exit. Changes will be made to ensure those laws are legally operable.
• The UK continues to mirror EU aviation regulations for at least a two-year period.
• The UK withdraws completely from the EASA system on 1 January 2021, meaning that the CAA will need to fulfil regulatory functions without having EASA as a technical agent and without having access to EASA and EU-level capabilities.
• The UK is no longer included in EU-level Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements. New UK agreements will come into effect.
• There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.
• UK-issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but only those contained in EU Regulation 2019/494 will continue to have validity within the EU system, as defined by that regulation.
• The EU treats UK airlines as Third Country Operators.
• All licences issued by the CAA under EU legislation, and all type approval certificates and third country approvals issued by EASA under EU legislation, will continue to have validity under UK law, provided they were effective immediately before 1 January 2021.
• The UK has minimised additional requirements for licences, approvals and certificates from EU aviation and aerospace companies providing services and goods in the UK.

You may call it freedom and independence. I call it bureaucratic and costly duplication of regulation.

 

[Vic]

I just don’t get that from listening to him. I listen to him three or four times a week while I’m In the gym and I think he is fairer to people than most. His style is to mirror back words and comments and ask what they mean (many don’t get past that) and then ask for facts to back it up (even more fail with that one). He certainly accepts informed opinion and opinion backed up with facts. Now I accept that it’s possible that they filter folk coming on but you would have thought that some would get through that can give as good as they get. Sadly not whilst I have been listening.

If Gove got through, O'Brien would ask what happened to the promise that we'd still be in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.

 

[mcfc1632]

Ikea said the store has made a consistent loss since 2007.

This is definitely not Brexit related.

Are you sure?

My local pub from years ago has been closed down and turned into a McDonalds FFS!!!!

Yeah, it was 2012 but I still think that, if I am desperate enough, there must be a way of linking it to Brexit

 

[Vic]

I'm saying the airline industry employs engineers, pilots, cabin crew that travel across the globe on a daily basis and are based out of countries and airports the world over to satisfy operational needs.

Us leaving the fucking EU isn't going to change that.

It's going to change that British airlines can't just set up a route between two other EU countries.