I think you will find that was the opposition.
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The Labour Party
- Thread starter Ban-jani
- Start date
I think you will find that was the opposition.
Well we haven’t elected a socialist government since the early 70’s as I’ve said.
Who did Johnson collude with who’s anti-Britain?
That is true, if there is ever going to be one again then it needs a leader who can sell it and to do that you need the help of a willing media. Murdoch, the Barclay brothers et al won't be backing that any time soon.
As for Johnson...Russia.
Hoghead
Well-Known Member
I think you forgot the Daily Mirror which has been banging the drum for Corbyn for 5 years. Incidentally, the Mirror is owned by Reach PLC who also publish the MEN, Echo, Express, Star amongst others - so quite an eclectic mix.The Independent and Guardian are pro Labour but apart from a couple of Corbynista journalists I found them to be anti-Corbyn (and all outlets anti-City).
Fame Monster
Well-Known Member
I think you are underestimating the media's impact on influencing voters (and perhaps I'm guilty of over estimating it too, I'm drawing on my experiences). The Independent and Guardian are pro Labour but apart from a couple of Corbynista journalists I found them to be anti-Corbyn (and all outlets anti-City). Sure Boris got some stick in the media, but like Trump it didn't matter what he did, how much he lied, the scandals he was involved in, or enemies of Britain he fraternised/colluded with, he was rewarded with a huge majority.
I completely agree they wanted Brexit, and they wanted it at any cost. I'm not sure it was a complete rejection of socialism, more a rejection of Corbyn the man.
It might have been a good defence 5 or 10 years ago but the last thing Labour can blame is media bias for their defeat in 2019.
People get their news online these days and The Guardian, Huffington Post, Daily Mirror, Reach PLC and even BBC News website were a lot more sympathetic to Labour than they were to the Tories. Meanwhile, the Murdoch papers are behind a paywall. It's only really MailOnline and Daily Express that compete.
That's without mentioning social media.
mexico1970
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For what it's worth even Labour MP's were anti-Corbyn, he's not exactly cheerleader worthy material.
Labour supporters on here - and generally ? - seem to have a collective need to hide from inconvenient truthsIt might have been a good defence 5 or 10 years ago but the last thing Labour can blame is media bias for their defeat in 2019.
People get their news online these days and The Guardian, Huffington Post, Daily Mirror, Reach PLC and even BBC News website were a lot more sympathetic to Labour than they were to the Tories. Meanwhile, the Murdoch papers are behind a paywall. It's only really MailOnline and Daily Express that compete.
That's without mentioning social media.
Blaming the media and Brexit is so convenient and avoids them having to accept that the party is just unattractive to the majority of the electorate
bumbleblue
Well-Known Member
Len McCluskey on news now...utterly deluded scouse knob.
Edit : fucking hell it’s worse than I thought.
Edit : fucking hell it’s worse than I thought.
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That is true, if there is ever going to be one again then it needs a leader who can sell it and to do that you need the help of a willing media. Murdoch, the Barclay brothers et al won't be backing that any time soon.
As for Johnson...Russia.
Well there’s little evidence that they are A) our enemy and B) Johnson colluded with them.
roypaulknewmyfather
Well-Known Member
Well there’s little evidence that they are A) our enemy and B) Johnson colluded with them.
I wish that were the case. We could spend the £billions on the NHS instead of a nuclear weapons programme.
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B
blueinsa
Guest
I wish that were the case. We could spend the £billions on the NHS instead of a nuclear weapons programme.
We do spend Billions on the NHS.
Its not an either/or situation.
I wish that were the case. We could spend the £billions on the NHS instead of a nuclear weapons programme.
It’s not just big bad Russia we have to worry about unfortunately.
I am no fan of Putin nor the Russian Government, especially their anti-democratic thuggish behaviour to opponents and the possibly rigged elections, however Putin’s end goal isn’t what a lot of people fear it is.
roypaulknewmyfather
Well-Known Member
That doesn't have to be the case eitherWe do spend Billions on the NHS.
Its not an either/or situation.
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blueinsa
Guest
That doesn't have to be the case either
It does when you have our standing in the world.
I know many think we are some 3rd world country these days with no power and no say but i dont subscribe to that way of thinking and its a fact that our nuclear deterrent not only protects us, it helps ensure that our enemies behave as well.
roypaulknewmyfather
Well-Known Member
It does when you have our standing in the world.
I know many think we are some 3rd world country these days with no power and no say but i dont subscribe to that way of thinking and its a fact that our nuclear deterrent not only protects us, it helps ensure that our enemies behave as well.
Glad you feel that way. Personally don't subscribe to that point of view, it's where we agree to differ
It might have been a good defence 5 or 10 years ago but the last thing Labour can blame is media bias for their defeat in 2019.
People get their news online these days and The Guardian, Huffington Post, Daily Mirror, Reach PLC and even BBC News website were a lot more sympathetic to Labour than they were to the Tories. Meanwhile, the Murdoch papers are behind a paywall. It's only really MailOnline and Daily Express that compete.
That's without mentioning social media.
I'm not blaming Labour's defeat on media bias, Brexit and Corbyn were the main reasons. The media's influence in politics and public opinion could have it's own thread (like in the main City forum).
Well there’s little evidence that they are A) our enemy and B) Johnson colluded with them.
Attempting murder of British citizens on British soil, invading and annexing an area from one of our allies, interfering in our own and our allies elections. If that's little evidence I don't know what else you need.
Granted there is little reported on his many meetings and donations received from Russians and those with links to Trump/Leave campaigns, we know the Foreign Office thought him a security risk...We can read all about it in the Russian Interference Report...oh wait, that has been suppressed. This could run on longer that Trump's Tax Returns. Nothing to see here, move along.
We're moving away from the topic.
Whoever wins the leadership contest I doubt will be in place for the next election (assuming it's in another 4-5 years), a 'steady the ship' appointment is required to get the party's act together and be a proper opposition and a look like they can be trusted to govern again. Easier said than done.
I don't think it is either.
Both main parties went to their extremes. The Tory extreme appeals more to the 'patriotic working class' than Labour's extreme.
Corbyn was completely unpalatable for many reasons to many people (I personally still preferred him to Johnson but it is very much South Park; Giant Douche v Turd Sandwich).
I still maintain Labour need to win over the media to win the election. The Tories know this and they are a well oiled election winning machine. They are the political equivalent of the Rags in 90's; friendly media coverage with hacks attacking their rivals, abusing officials, banning journalists who dare write negatively about them and even refusing to be interviewed by the BBC.
When a political party is allowed to shape the narrative through the media, it's no wonder they pick up so many armchair voters.
Totally. I joined the Labour Party last year. I can tell you with full confidence they can't organise a piss up in a brewery. The meetings I attend are dominated by left wing socialism and hating the Blairities. They love Corbyn and believe the election was lost because of the media and Brexit. In my opinon Corbyn was a bigger factor but to the point made the media were / are massively against Corbyn and thisnisna big factor.
Overall Labour are a mess, full of infighting and it's a tragedy because the Tories are a shambles and there for the taking.
Lastly, Corbyn should naever have agreed to the general election. He should have let the Tories deal with Brexit but no he believed he had the votes. So. Incompetent.
Attempting murder of British citizens on British soil, invading and annexing an area from one of our allies, interfering in our own and our allies elections. If that's little evidence I don't know what else you need.
Granted there is little reported on his many meetings and donations received from Russians and those with links to Trump/Leave campaigns, we know the Foreign Office thought him a security risk...We can read all about it in the Russian Interference Report...oh wait, that has been suppressed. This could run on longer that Trump's Tax Returns. Nothing to see here, move along.
We're moving away from the topic.
Whoever wins the leadership contest I doubt will be in place for the next election (assuming it's in another 4-5 years), a 'steady the ship' appointment is required to get the party's act together and be a proper opposition and a look like they can be trusted to govern again. Easier said than done.
Is that proven?
They’re not annexing Britain, it’s a contentious area with people who identify as Russian. Don’t wish to get drawn into a debate on the Ukraine but it’s hardly an act of aggression against Britain.
Again, is that proven or a convenient excuse for losing elections?
Labour are totally fucked for the long run. If they had any brains they’d position themselves exactly in line with how the SDP are but they won’t.
Is that proven?
They’re not annexing Britain, it’s a contentious area with people who identify as Russian. Don’t wish to get drawn into a debate on the Ukraine but it’s hardly an act of aggression against Britain.
Again, is that proven or a convenient excuse for losing elections?
Labour are totally fucked for the long run. If they had any brains they’d position themselves exactly in line with how the SDP are but they won’t.
Is that proven? That's what Corbyn asked and when showed the evidence came the same conclusion as British Intelligence Services that it was the Russians (he was derided for questioning it at the time).
Doesn't matter how contentious the area is or the thoughts of some of the population in it, they broke an agreement they had with the US and UK.
It is true that he has had many meetings and received donations from Russians linked to Putin's regime and who played big parts in the Trump and Leave campaigns. It is also true he's supressed the report on Russian Interference. So many similarities to Trump who also ignored the intel from his security services about interference.
I don't agree that you can categorically say they fucked for the long run. It all depends on the moves they make next and with Brexit 'done' and Corbyn gone what more do they want to come back?
Genuinely interested, if you previously voted for them and didn't this time around what would make you vote Labour again?
Is that proven? That's what Corbyn asked and when showed the evidence came the same conclusion as British Intelligence Services that it was the Russians (he was derided for questioning it at the time).
Doesn't matter how contentious the area is or the thoughts of some of the population in it, they broke an agreement they had with the US and UK.
It is true that he has had many meetings and received donations from Russians linked to Putin's regime and who played big parts in the Trump and Leave campaigns. It is also true he's supressed the report on Russian Interference. So many similarities to Trump who also ignored the intel from his security services about interference.
I don't agree that you can categorically say they fucked for the long run. It all depends on the moves they make next and with Brexit 'done' and Corbyn gone what more do they want to come back?
Genuinely interested, if you previously voted for them and didn't this time around what would make you vote Labour again?
I think Corbyn had a point in retrospect.
I still don’t see that as them being our enemy.
There’s little if no evidence in this, he may well have been but there’s not the evidence to suggest it’s true.
Conservative social values. Attlee and Bevan were more British than most of the current Conservative Party and it would shock the modern hysterical liberals, who call themselves after them on Twitter, to learn their real social views - such as support for the death penalty.