UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

[cjn]

Why?,we have the squad,the travelling wouldn't be much different

Why does playing friendlies in place of the CL make no sense? For many reasons, but chiefly because there's no one to play them against that anyone would want to see and the logistics are difficult since it'll obviously have to be outside of Europe. Most importantly though, no one is going to televise one off friendlies between our B team and some random Qatari side. Thats where all the money from this kind of stuff comes from, otherwise all you get are partial gate receipts from a rented stadium, less all travel and logistic costs.

Oh yeah, and all the players (and Pep) would fucking hate it. We're trying to get these guys to stay at the club in the absence of the Champion's League. Making them fly halfway around the world to play in money making events isn't how we're going to do that.

 

[iwasthere1968]

If UEFA asked accountants to investigate the source of Etihad's sponsorship money, going off the leaked emails, and they found the money came from another account in Abu Dhabi then it's a matter whether the original provider of the funds was ADUG. It's possible for them to try and tie up companies and claim that it's our own money going into the Etihad sponsorship, but there might be little proof of that. We don't have access to their evidence or ours. We say we have a comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence, let's hope that includes of the Etihad money.

How the hell are they going to get access to our accounts?

 

[Cornish_Blue]

And ideas yet for banners? You could maybe create a topic in its own right. I am sure City fans could come up with a few ideas. Something short and to the point.

Fück Uefa

 

[Keeper!]

If this goes to the Swiss court and we're exonerated there,is there any chance we could get the original fine paid back to us due to the fact that uefa changed the rules after we'd made our original submissions?

When we win this case, Ms David Gill and Co will be seaking new identities and passports.

 

[Kinkys Left Foot]

I've allowed my anger to assuage somewhat since Friday however I still have a feeling of discernible contempt for what these utter twats are trying to do. This is a blatant clear attempt to hobble us for years and as many have already said the Brand damage is practically immeasurable.

I won't go over any of the typical arguments that are being bandied about as its clear we don't know what the precise allegations are, although we may guess and we don't know whats in the supposed 200 page dossier in response to those allegations that was allegedly never read (which I found hard to believe ) more likely ignored in pursuit of a hurried escalation of matters to the Adjudicatory Chamber due to time limitations.

I have revisited the original Der Spiegel pieces to remind myself exactly what the nature these reports regarding emails were exactly as I think its fair to say after months of research they will not have held back any material they thought would be incriminating for UEFA to use at a later date. Its astounding to think they would form the basis of this type of sanction when you re-read them. I think this as there is a certain amount of conjecture as to who the individual parties in respect of the funding of monies actually represent. For instance although ADUG are Citys parent they are also the parent group of Etihad Airways (according to this piece). So why shouldn't they provide monies to cover the sponsorship of Etihad to City as long as thats while they are waring their Etihad hat so to speak.

Simon Pearce, Member of the Board
Simon Pearce was appointed to the Board in September 2008. He is also Vice Chairman of Melbourne City FC.
In 2006, Mr Pearce joined the Executive Affairs Authority of Abu Dhabi, and currently serves as special Advisor to the Chairman. He is also a Board Member of Abu Dhabi Motorsport Management, operator of Yas Marina Circuit and home of the F1 Etihad Airways Abu Dhabi Grand Prix, and a Board Member of Manchester Life Development Company.

The first one mentioned(with the HH allegation) is from APRIL 2010! This ones in relation to the Aabar sponsorship which I thought had been subsequently dealt with following the 2014 Sanction.
As early as April 2010, when Simon Pearce negotiated the sponsorship deal with Aabar, he wrote a telltale email to the firm's leadership. According to the contract, the investment company was to pay the club 15 million pounds annually. But that apparently isn't the full story. "As we discussed, the annual direct obligation for Aabar is GBP 3 million," Pearce wrote. "The remaining 12 million GBP requirement will come from alternative sources provided by His Highness."

The other material referred to below is jumbled up as they take individual exerts for several different emails over several years to try and make a point.

"Etihad's direct contribution remains constant at 8m," wrote Simon Pearce in December 2013. At that time, Etihad's contractual sponsoring obligation was 35 million Pounds.

How does it work in practice? Apparently, companies like Etihad in Abu Dhabi wait for the Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG), the holding company that belongs to Sheikh Mansour and which also owns Manchester City, to wire them money. That money is then "routed through the partners and they then forward onto us," wrote Finance Director Andrew Widdowson in an email. That, at least, is how things were done in 2015: At the time, the deal with Etihad was bringing in 67.5 million pounds annually. But Chief Financial Officer Chumillas emphasized in an email to Pearce: "Please note that out of those 67.5m pounds, 8m pounds should be funded directly by Etihad and 59.5 by ADUG."

For anyone who's not seen copies of the ALLEGED ACTUAL EMAILS THEY ARE HERE: (as indicated by our friends at DS)
https://www.spiegel.de/sport/fussba...ostrecke-a293d1c1-0001-0002-0000-000000167278

You can make your own mind up if you think they contain sufficient information to warrant the action and sanction that has followed.

So if I can get this straight we have been accused of submitting cooked books ie the Accounts are falsified from 2012 - 2016
Surely this must also therefore accuse Etihad, ADUG, MCFC, Aabar, Etisalat and others of submitting false accounts as well as alleging our Auditors of collaboration in their submission. I'm sure BDO LLP will also be seething at such an accusation although I suspect their liability is disclaimed and the full weight of criminality falls upon the Directors.

Does this mean these accusations allege breaches of the Companies Act 2006 as well and therefore criminal Acts?
For those who want to read more: - https://www.hcrlaw.com/blog/directors-officers-beware-criminal-offences-companies-act-2006/
But simply "Most seriously, a director found guilty of fraudulent trading could face a fine and up to ten years in jail on conviction in the Crown Court."

I'm sure none of the above are currently being contemplated however if we fail to defend these accusations fully and any kind of sanction remains then it follows the Accounts for those periods will be deemed to have been doctored and that will also fall foul of Premier League rules and action will almost inevitably follow by the PL. What that could be god only knows but we shouldn't really be speculating this far in front currently.

Make no mistake ladies and Gentlemen these ****s are out to ruin our football club and we are at WAR with UEFA wether you like it or not.

It is well and truly time to circle the wagons and get behind the club if you believe our Chairman that we are wholly innocent of all the charges.
Once the full findings of the CAS decision are revealed we will know in detail what the allegations are specifically and what our defence to those allegations are. If UEFA have gone all in on King high and we smash them at CAS they will deserve the full weight of our ire in pursuing claims for damages to our brand which could amount to eye watering sums of money, sufficient I suspect to practically ruin UEFA but at a minimum result in the removal of Leterme, Ceferin and their current bent cronies. If it happens they will have brought it on themselves and we should have no pity, NONE.

Only then should we turn to all the fucking worms that have crawled out of their holes to aim their lickspitle fuelled dirges in our direction, I sincerely hope the club are keeping a close account of their shithousery, the likes of Ian fucking Herbert and others of his like should be treated by the club with the utter contempt they deserve and if they have committed libelous statements we should stamp on them like the shite they are - only then will I be happy.

 

[SidJames]

How do you know this? UEFA cannot arbitrarily refuse to see evidence in our defence and then also claim it can't be presented at a CAS hearing. That would surely contravene natural justice.

It is being widely reported that UEFA refused to accept further evidence from City,that was irrefutable proof of our innocence.

Had UEFA accepted this highly likely they would have had no choice but come to a different conclusion.

"Yes" and i agree if this is true it so wrong it is untrue.

 

[nmc]

So you'd accept the associated guilt even if it meant being labelled a pedo or a murderer for the rest of your life?

Shhhh the jorno’s reading this will add these to our list of crimes.

 

[M18CTID]

But he did state one of our offences is back dating payments.

Not seen this quoted anywhere else so not sure if it's true.

I didn't hear that to be fair. Not sure how he would know that unless he's been tipped off. I know we're all second guessing here but there's never been an inking that it's about back-dated payments, plus didn't PSG back-date that huge sponsorship deal of theirs when they first announced it?

 

[Keeper!]

We don't know for sure that Ceferin was offering an olive branch to City but some reputable journalists had sources on both sides suggesting a ban was off the table, and that was what he was up to.

I think City refused to take the olive branch and UEFA juggled the hot potato for months and were unable to bit the bullet. They couldn't let City off. In the end they've gone for the full sanction but I think City are very confident that CAS will throw it out.

As fans we might have preferred the safe option of a fine and business as usual but City's exec will know how the land lies and what evidence UEFA have, and what evidence we have. They will also know which way CAS are leaning.

He was Khaldoon's personal guest earlier in the Chums League, I don't think he was their for the balti Pie.

 

[George Hannah]

If anyone's willing to throw a few quid into the hat, 1894 Group have setup a gofundme page for donations to a display against Real Madrid. The more we raise the more we can do.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/mcfc-v-madrid-at-home?

no PayPal ;(

 

[blueinsa]

@Mabalsa Ricci come on get that first post down :)

Will be a journalist on the sniff for his next tweet/blog/story.

 

[sir baconface]

I've caught up with this thread. Do I win a prize?

Yes, your P45 if you’ve been reading it at work.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

I think we need to forget completely about the possibility of a token fine and a slap on the wrist. The IC and the AC are claimed to be independent by UEFA and so Ceferin has no authority to offer a deal or broker one. I suspect his presence at our CL games was to urge the club to negotiate a settlement with the AC and he may have suggested that the terms would be quite lenient. The problem is that to negotiate a settlement we would first have had to admit we had violated FFP and the AC could have used this to justify any swingeing terms it cared to impose. That really would have been reputational disaster, and would make the headlines George Hannah has posted today look positively favourable.

The above seems like just another conspiracy theory but the view put forward by Conn in the Guardian and most other hacks of UEFA acting only to bring order to a chaotic world of football finance is naive in the extreme if it isn't actually dishonest. It avoids the question of why owner investment is wrong if the aim is financial stability? And it ignores the timing of the abandonment of dealing with debt in favour of restricting spending (only on players) to sources of income dominated by the elite. Then there are the endless comments about City out of Platini's mouth: City could spend £300 million every transfer window if they wanted but they couldn't play in his champions league.. his assertion that FFP might anger City but it would please United, Bayern etc, before we get to the "fiddling of the dates" in 2014, the miraculously increased sponsorships allowed some other clubs... So, we at City are suspicious of UEFA and we have decided very firmly that taking this as far as necessary is the only option. When things look desperate you don't look for help from a serpent.

 

[Baggins.mcfc]

I've caught up with this thread. Do I win a prize?

No its impossible to catch up. By time you think you have caught up, you are already at least 10 messages behind.

 

[Marvin]

OK that potentially clears up the Etihad money, but there are other deals that have been questioned, or does this explain those as well? HH being the head of the UAE?

I think it relates to Etihad but that is by far the largest of the UAE sponsors. Organisations like Aabar are owned by the Sheikh, and can be used to self-sponsor up to a fair market value - as other Premier League clubs have done.

 

[kaz7]

After the events of the last few days I cant help but think that City have made a huge strategic error. Apparently we were offered a way out of this with a technical breach and small fine. (Similar to the Fifa case). By refusing to negotiate it seems we have pushed UEFA to go nuclear with us.

Even if the ban is overturned by Cas this doesnt clear us and its my understanding we have to carry the fight on in Swiss courts(?).

Even if we are eventually cleared which is far from certain the reputational damage of the ban and potential future case with UEFA is enormous. Pretty much the whole footballing world has heard Manchester City are cheats for the last few days and will narative will continue and wont stop even if we win the case. It will turn to, 'well what did you expect when they can buy the bsst lawyers'

Wouldn't it have been sensible to take the fine and carry on as normal. Who would care apart from Johny from Liverpool on twitter.

By taking this risk we have potentially affected our ability to compete for the next 3 4 years but also will forever be known as cheats. We can all argue with internet warriors till we are blue in the face but the label will surely affect out ability to attract commercial sponsorship and grow our fan base in the developing football markets such as India, China and the US.

they wanted us to plead guilty which would have ruined our reputation for good,why the fuck would we do that if we believe we are not? We have an error here,we have to fight it,they have left us NO choice

 

[Gremlin]

No its impossible to catch up. By time you think you have caught up, you are already at least 10 messages behind.

Zeno's FFP forum paradox

 

[SebastianBlue]

I never said I had seen all the evidence I said I've read and seen the evidence in support of UEFA's claims and that is pretty compelling. This is readily available on the web if you bother to go and look for it.

As you apparently have access to evidence not even the club have been granted, as UEFA hasn’t publicly released any of the specific materials being used to support their decision to find City guilty of the two charges they have levied (in fact, in their statement announcing the decision, UEFA specifically stated they wouldn’t be releasing the materials if City appealed the decision to CAS)...

Would you be so kind as to share a link to these materials on UEFA’s internal systems and share how you gained access to them?

 

[cjn]

I can't go through all these pages so I'm sure this has been posted already, but this was a really excellent analysis of the situation. Highly recommended:

https://ninetythreetwenty.com/blog/seeing-the-wood-for-the-ffps-manchester-city-uefa-go-to-war/

 

[bluemonkey71]

And ideas yet for banners? You could maybe create a topic in its own right. I am sure City fans could come up with a few ideas. Something short and to the point.

That pig one was great that was posted a while back