COVID-19 — Coronavirus

[Renneronline]

I get angry just looking at the guy (Johnson)for saying what he did. As distraught as he appeared, he was quite palpably saying lots of people's live don't matter. That he and the experts have this under control. They haven't. Not by a long chalk, not by how lots of people have reacted to 'his and their' recommendations. They have no recognised helpful plan for people to survive, This country has the resources within it to do more than is being done. It needs to shove 'conventions' aside for a month. 2 months, however long it takes, to bring us all together and constructively build the barriers we need to do. We need, hospitals...raid flipping Band Q, take over Amazon warehouses, there's tons of space, fill it with amenities...we have have white van drivers to shuffle stuff around, gawd I'm thick and stupid, but there are ways of travel that can be done if the will is there. Sitting around doing nothing, letting this thing invade us and overtake us is mundane trivial and pathetic. That's my abridged rant over with, yes, I know, life isn't simple and there are things to consider, but flipping heck, something needs to be SEEN to be done to grab some POSITIVENESS from this shite we are all facing! Johnson has said his bit, we don't matter, But other people do matter to me. I don't know anyone on here, clueless over who any of you are. I don't want you to succumb to this thing, nor any member of your families, I don't want to think that any generation matters more or is considered more virtuous than another. I get overly passionate from time to time, and apologise for it. We need to do more than we are doing, we're in this together, like it or not, so let's work together to get something done and think outside the bloody box to achieve it!....I'll try and be good and not be so inflammatory in the future. Just saying how I feel folks.

 

[domalino]

Not so. We simply need to avoid NHS overload until a vaccine is available.

We have to accept that up to 1% of infected cases will probably due no matter what we do. This is of course terrible in itself but I can be much worse. Something like 5% of people will need intensive care - invasive or non-invasive ventilator support. Without it, nearly all of that 5% die. So if the NHS gets substantially overloaded then we have no chance of keeping the death rate anywhere near 1%. It is imperative we do everything possible to stop the spread, irrespective of whether people can develop immunity or not. I hear some woman on the TV as I type saying she's going to a lower league game today on the basis of "oh well I could catch it at Tesco anyway". It is that sort of attitude - allowed to form due to such shit awful advice from the government - which could cause unmitigated disaster.

If theres no acquired immunity from having the virus and recovering then avoiding an overloaded NHS is going to be impossible and a hell of a lot more than 1% of people will die.

Fortunately there's no reports of people being reinforced, outside one or two cases worldwide where people who may or may not have fully recovered had late relapses.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

The news came through about two, maybe three, weeks ago that this was happening.

 

[Tricky_Trev]

In the time we’ve been faffing about singing nursery rhymes, China could have built a dozen hospitals.

 

[Chippy_boy]

If theres no acquired immunity from having the virus and recovering then avoiding an overloaded NHS is going to be impossible.

No it isnt. They have only had 80k cases in the whole of China and it's nearly April already.

They have it under control sufficiently that they are even giving spare respirators away now. This is the model we need to adopt. Now.

 

[domalino]

No it isnt. They have only had 80k cases in the whole of China and it's nearly April already.

They have it under control sufficiently that they are even giving spare respirators away now. This is the model we need to adopt. Now.

They are working on the belief that you can't get reinfected and acquire immunity.

Otherwise they would not be reopening locked down provinces and national travel.

 

[domalino]

The news came through about two, maybe three, weeks ago that this was happening.

If it was a real risk then China would not be reopening and things would not be getting better there.

It's much more likely these patients were released early before theyd fully recovred and had late relapses then they got reinfected.

 

[Chippy_boy]

They are working on the belief that you can't get reinfected and acquire immunity.

Otherwise they would not be reopening locked down provinces and national travel.

Red herring mate. I don't care whether those infected have now got immunity or not - there's 60m in Hubei who haven't been infected at all and therefore who have no protection anyway. Whether the 0.1% who got sick have immunity or not, is neither here nor there. 99.9% have no immunity.

But they have it under control because the new infection rate is low and person to person spread is being kept low. If it starts to ramp up, they can clamp down again and do so EARLY - to avoid calamity. Like we had the opportunity to do and maybe still do if we act quickly.

They got caught out in December/January, got burned, learned their lessons and now know what to do. They showed us the way. We can avoid the scenes from Hubei and Italy and yet seem to think we should just accept that as being our fate. It isn't.

 

[meltonblue]

Not so. We simply need to avoid NHS overload until a vaccine is available.

We have to accept that up to 1% of infected cases will probably die no matter what we do. This is of course terrible in itself but it can be much worse. Something like 5% of people will need intensive care - invasive or non-invasive ventilator support. Without it, nearly all of that 5% die. So if the NHS gets substantially overloaded then we have no chance of keeping the death rate anywhere near 1%. It is imperative we do everything possible to stop the spread, irrespective of whether people can develop immunity or not. I hear some woman on the TV as I type saying she's going to a lower league game today on the basis of "oh well I could catch it at Tesco anyway". It is that sort of attitude - allowed to form due to such shit awful advice from the government - which could cause unmitigated disaster.

Agree with that fully. The problem with the government guidance is that unless they take severe actions themselves, then people aren’t going to individually either. People won’t self isolate with mild symptoms if they’re being told at the same time that we are planning for the majority to get it anyway.

 

[bluethrunthru]

The news came through about two, maybe three, weeks ago that this was happening.

China tightening hospital discharge standards - I read that as people were discharged when like as not they weren't fully recovered so tested positive again.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

I get angry just looking at the guy (Johnson)for saying what he did. As distraught as he appeared, he was quite palpably saying lots of people's live don't matter. That he and the experts have this under control. They haven't. Not by a long chalk, not by how lots of people have reacted to 'his and their' recommendations. They have no recognised helpful plan for people to survive, This country has the resources within it to do more than is being done. It needs to shove 'conventions' aside for a month. 2 months, however long it takes, to bring us all together and constructively build the barriers we need to do. We need, hospitals...raid flipping Band Q, take over Amazon warehouses, there's tons of space, fill it with amenities...we have have white van drivers to shuffle stuff around, gawd I'm thick and stupid, but there are ways of travel that can be done if the will is there. Sitting around doing nothing, letting this thing invade us and overtake us is mundane trivial and pathetic. That's my abridged rant over with, yes, I know, life isn't simple and there are things to consider, but flipping heck, something needs to be SEEN to be done to grab some POSITIVENESS from this shite we are all facing! Johnson has said his bit, we don't matter, But other people do matter to me. I don't know anyone on here, clueless over who any of you are. I don't want you to succumb to this thing, nor any member of your families, I don't want to think that any generation matters more or is considered more virtuous than another. I get overly passionate from time to time, and apologise for it. We need to do more than we are doing, we're in this together, like it or not, so let's work together to get something done and think outside the bloody box to achieve it!....I'll try and be good and not be so inflammatory in the future. Just saying how I feel folks.

People need to get to grips with reality. PEOPLE’S LIVES DO NOT MATTER TO GOVERNMENTS! Never have, never will.

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

Not so. We simply need to avoid NHS overload until a vaccine is available.

We have to accept that up to 1% of infected cases will probably due no matter what we do. This is of course terrible in itself but I can be much worse. Something like 5% of people will need intensive care - invasive or non-invasive ventilator support. Without it, nearly all of that 5% die. So if the NHS gets substantially overloaded then we have no chance of keeping the death rate anywhere near 1%. It is imperative we do everything possible to stop the spread, irrespective of whether people can develop immunity or not. I hear some woman on the TV as I type saying she's going to a lower league game today on the basis of "oh well I could catch it at Tesco anyway". It is that sort of attitude - allowed to form due to such shit awful advice from the government - which could cause unmitigated disaster.

Some of what you say is undoubtedly true but there are some difficult decisions ahead. There may be many unforeseen consequences of all this and I still think the headline numbers we should be looking at are the monthly excess mortality numbers.
11000 deaths every week and, sad to say, the vast majority of those that die from this virus would have been in these numbers this year regardless. What we need to guard against is that we don’t end up filling hospitals up with people who won’t/can’t recover at the expense of other people who could. I’d imagine, if we’re not careful curable cancer patients will die, curable trauma patients will die and curable cardiac patients will die.
I also don’t imagine there will be too much non-invasive ventilation going on either. I think that it’s use has been a significant contributor factor to the Italian spread.
One final point, as uncomfortable as it might seem, people need to have a proper conversation with their at risk loved ones to find out what they want. One of our relatives has firmly started that they don’t want ECMO and the like. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we always have to do something, which is the story of medicine everyday, sadly.
Hope it all works out well for you and yours and all on here for that matter. Whilst there’s often lots of shouting on here I do find it a very useful place for seeing other, often very different, perspectives. Mutual support over the next few months is undoubtedly the way to go. Cheers.

 

[urban genie]

Spain are turning planes back to destinations or origin

 

[The Light Was Yellow Sir]

In the time we’ve been faffing about singing nursery rhymes, China could have built a dozen hospitals.

11 of them would have fallen down though!!

 

[bobmcfc]

The news came through about two, maybe three, weeks ago that this was happening.

Yet we didn’t take notice. It didn’t sound right what Johnson was being told by those two either side of him.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Some of what you say is undoubtedly true but there are some difficult decisions ahead. There may be many unforeseen consequences of all this and I still think the headline numbers we should be looking at are the monthly excess mortality numbers.
11000 deaths every week and, sad to say, the vast majority of those that die from this virus would have been in these numbers this year regardless. What we need to guard against is that we don’t end up filling hospitals up with people who won’t/can’t recover at the expense of other people who could. I’d imagine, if we’re not careful curable cancer patients will die, curable trauma patients will die and curable cardiac patients will die.
I also don’t imagine there will be too much non-invasive ventilation going on either. I think that it’s use has been a significant contributor factor to the Italian spread.
One final point, as uncomfortable as it might seem, people need to have a proper conversation with their at risk loved ones to find out what they want. One of our relatives has firmly started that they don’t want ECMO and the like. Just because we can do something doesn’t mean we always have to do something, which is the story of medicine everyday, sadly.
Hope it all works out well for you and yours and all on here for that matter. Whilst there’s often lots of shouting on here I do find it a very useful place for seeing other, often very different, perspectives. Mutual support over the next few months is undoubtedly the way to go. Cheers.

This is what Italy has been doing. Treating people they think are worth saving. Sending the elderly and people with underlying health problems home to recover/die.

 

[i8rags]

Jet2 cancelled all flight to Spain and the islands

 

[Claytop]

No, I'm suggesting clamp down until numbers are falling not rising. And then clamp down again later if needed. May not be needed in the summer anyway.

I'd expect us to have to have restrictions in place - on or off - for a year or more. The only other option is to watch the calamity in Italy across the whole UK, but much much worse with far higher infection rates and even lower ability to treat people. People who could be saved, dying needlessly, alone in corridors in the thousands. That's the alternative.

How do you suggest we clamp down? Follow China’s route and lock people in their own homes?

Whether you like it or not that’s just not going to happen and wouldn’t work here.

I don’t have any better answers than what’s already out there but I can see the logic in the plan that we have laid out.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

How do you suggest we clamp down? Follow China’s route and lock people in their own homes?

Whether you like it or not that’s just not going to happen and wouldn’t work here.

I don’t have any better answers than what’s already out there but I can see the logic in the plan that we have laid out.

Even if the Govt welded people’s front doors shut here, people would climb out of their bedroom windows then gather in a mass protest about their human rights, in city centres.

 

[domalino]

People need to get to grips with reality. PEOPLE’S LIVES DO NOT MATTER TO GOVERNMENTS! Never have, never will.

This is the kind of bullshit that really annoys me.

You're accusing people who have dedicated their lives to studying, researching and planning for pandemics in the hope of saving as many people as possible of not caring about human lives.



And its them that you are accusing by the way because the Johnson and co. are following strategies laid out a long time ago by non political parts of the government.