COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Some scientists and WHO do not agree with the UK administration...

Professor Hibberd (emerging infectious disease) disagrees with the herd strategy.

"Another strategy might be to contain longer and perhaps long enough for a therapy to emerge....while this containment approach is clearly difficult (and maybe impossible for many countries), it does seem a worthy goal; and those countries that can should aim to do."
 
meltonblue said:
Agree with that fully. The problem with the government guidance is that unless they take severe actions themselves, then people aren’t going to individually either. People won’t self isolate with mild symptoms if they’re being told at the same time that we are planning for the majority to get it anyway.
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Agreed. People just need to do the maths mate. If the projected 70% who could get this do get it (40m), over let's say 12 months, then that's roughly 3m people per month if we have no peaks whatsoever.

That would mean something like 150.000 additional intensive care beds needed, continuously, for the next year. That's perhaps 50x as many as we have. So were this to happen then we could probably expect 4% or so if the 40m people to die, 3% needlessly

That's 1.2 million unnecessary deaths. It's simply unthinkable and and absolutely bonkers way of looking at this challenge.

Clamp down, keep the infection levels down in the tens of thousands and we can cope and save countless lives.
 
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domalino said:
This is the kind of bullshit that really annoys me.

You're accusing people who have dedicated their lives to studying, researching and planning for pandemics in the hope of saving as many people as possible of not caring about human lives.



And its them that you are accusing by the way because the Johnson and co. are following strategies laid out a long time ago by no political parts of the government.
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We are all just numbers who are used to make the world of money go round. That’s why they need to keep us alive.

We are all conditioned to think this is normal in the way they present things. It’s called hypernormalisation.
 
domalino said:
This is the kind of bullshit that really annoys me.

You're accusing people who have dedicated their lives to studying, researching and planning for pandemics in the hope of saving as many people as possible of not caring about human lives.



And its them that you are accusing by the way because the Johnson and co. are following strategies laid out a long time ago by no political parts of the government.
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Hahahaha!
 
Tricky_Trev said:
And that’s despite Italy having almost double our number of critical care beds per capita.
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Indeed. It was a frightening stat that came out yesterday when Scotland said they were doubling their ICU beds from 400 to 800!
 
Claytop said:
How do you suggest we clamp down? Follow China’s route and lock people in their own homes?

Whether you like it or not that’s just not going to happen and wouldn’t work here.

I don’t have any better answers than what’s already out there but I can see the logic in the plan that we have laid out.
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No, but I don't expect us to be allowing fucking mass gatherings and relying on the sporting bodies to be more fucking responsible than our own government!

It is their weak messaging which will cost countless lives. We are not China and cannot force people to do things. But we can provide the right guidance, impress on people just what incredibly dangerous a situation we are in and ASK them to make personal changes. Many companies - including my own now and many of my customers - are doing this already. It is shameful that our own government is not.

Everyone who CAN work from home, should be doing so. People should not be going to mass gatherings. People should think about how often they want to go to Tesco's. Maybe go once per week not twice. Maybe go at 2.00 am when few people are there. Consider keeping your kids off school.

The spread of the virus can be slowed much more if everyone buys into what changes need to happen. We need to slow it as much as possible or we are genuinely fucked. I mean really fucked. The government allowing things to carry on as long as they have is criminal, perhaps literally.
 
Psychedelic Casual said:
Indeed. It was a frightening stat that came out yesterday when Scotland said they were doubling their ICU beds from 400 to 800!
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I know. It’s important to increase the numbers wherever possible but the stark reality is it’s still not anywhere near enough.

Has there been any talk of what numbers England could increase it to with a bit of a reshuffle? I haven’t heard anything. I’ve heard them say the NHS is “flexible” but I’ve not seen any numbers to go with it.

EDIT: just seen this on BBC which is relevant:

Germany and Italy are ramping up production of medical ventilators to meet expected peak epidemic demand. They cost $17,000 each.

According to Reuters, Germany has ordered 10,000 ventilators, Italy has ordered 5,000.

Factories in overdrive in Europe. Italy is getting the army involved in helping the production line.

As far as I’m aware, the UK has one small manufacturer of ventilators that has 40% market share.
 
Marvin said:
Some scientists and WHO do not agree with the UK administration...

Professor Hibberd (emerging infectious disease) disagrees with the herd strategy.

"Another strategy might be to contain longer and perhaps long enough for a therapy to emerge....while this containment approach is clearly difficult (and maybe impossible for many countries), it does seem a worthy goal; and those countries that can should aim to do."
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That's precisely what I've been saying.
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, but I don't expect us to be allowing fucking mass gatherings and relying on the sporting bodies to be more fucking responsible than our own government!

It is their weak messaging which will cost countless lives. We are not China and cannot force people to do things. But we can provide the right guidance, impress on people just what incredibly dangerous a situation we are in and ASK them to make personal changes. Many companies - including my own now and many of my customers - are doing this already. It is shameful that our own government is not.

Everyone who CAN work from home, should be doing so. People should not be going to mass gatherings. People should think about how often they want to go to Tesco's. Maybe go once per week not twice. Maybe go at 2.00 am when few people are there. Consider keeping your kids off school.

The spread of the virus can be slowed much more if everyone buys into what changes need to happen. We need to slow it as much as possible or we are genuinely fucked. I mean really fucked. The government allowing things to carry on as long as they have is criminal, perhaps literally.
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What if everyone does that?
 
Chippy_boy said:
No, but I don't expect us to be allowing fucking mass gatherings and relying on the sporting bodies to be more fucking responsible than our own government!

It is their weak messaging which will cost countless lives. We are not China and cannot force people to do things. But we can provide the right guidance, impress on people just what incredibly dangerous a situation we are in and ASK them to make personal changes. Many companies - including my own now and many of my customers - are doing this already. It is shameful that our own government is not.

Everyone who CAN work from home, should be doing so. People should not be going to mass gatherings. People should think about how often they want to go to Tesco's. Maybe go once per week not twice. Maybe go at 2.00 am when few people are there. Consider keeping your kids off school.

The spread of the virus can be slowed much more if everyone buys into what changes need to happen. We need to slow it as much as possible or we are genuinely fucked. I mean really fucked. The government allowing things to carry on as long as they have is criminal, perhaps literally.
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Sky News did a poll yesterday and 25% of the country are refusing to change anything. I don’t know how many of them are not changing because of weak messaging and how many are just bellends. Probably mostly stupid twats that have their heads in the sand.
 
Tricky_Trev said:
Sky News did a poll yesterday and 25% of the country are refusing to change anything. I don’t know how many of them are not changing because of weak messaging and how many are just bellends. Probably mostly stupid twats that have their heads in the sand.
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Stupidity or a manifestation of "the manic defence". It's a pretty bleak reality to face up to at the moment.
 
mayo31 said:
What if everyone does that?
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It would be the best outcome. I said everyone who CAN work from home, should. Not everyone should.

Many businesses - restaurants etc - will need financial support. We should provide it. If there was a war on, we'd do what we need to do. If government borrowing has to go through the roof then so be it.
 
Tricky_Trev said:
Sky News did a poll yesterday and 25% of the country are refusing to change anything. I don’t know how many of them are not changing because of weak messaging and how many are just bellends. Probably mostly stupid twats that have their heads in the sand.
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The infuriating thing is one of the bellends may end up with the ICU bed your Mum needs.
 
This makes for pretty frightening reading, feels like were at the start of Hollywood natural disaster movie where at least theres a glimmer of hope at the end.

What I cant get my head round in terms of the herd mentality is if this is the way forward then why self isolate, surely large events mixing with people is the way forward.

Isolate those most at risk whilst the rest of us crack on and come out the other side.

The fact this isn't being advocated says to me they're playing at this with the lives of those most vulnerable.

Something doesn't add up or have I completely misread what's going on.


https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...s-hospital-symptoms-italy-china-a9397736.html
 
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