COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Ban-jani said:
No mate, you’re just totally not getting it are you.

Let me spell it out for you in capitals, please concentrate, this is the last time:

THEY RELEASED INFORMATION IN DECEMBER THAT THE VIRUS EXISTED BUT COVERED UP THAT IT WAS TRANSMISSIBLE BETWEEN HUMANS UNTIL THE 3RD WEEK OF JANUARY.

Is that understood now?

Good.

Taiwan said early January it was transmissible and shut transport from areas of China. The WHO ignored them.
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Mate - let it drop. Who cares, what are you going to do, never eat chicken chow mein ever again? They can probably stand that.
 
George Hannah said:
The brute fact is the case to death ratio. 63,929 cases and 550 deaths in Germany compared to 22,048 cases and 1408 deaths in the UK. We have one third the identified cases and 3 x the deaths,
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The German's themselves said they're not doing anything special when their original low death rate caught people's attention.

They don't have significantly healthier population, better medical facilities or doctors...it'll correct itself.
 
domalino said:
The German's themselves said they're not doing anything special when their original low death rate caught people's attention.

They don't have significantly healthier population, better medical facilities or doctors...it'll correct itself.
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It will correct itself in what way? Are you saying they will have more deaths or is our stats that are wrong? Iceland have tested all residents and have just over 1,000 infections (1 per around 300) and 2 deaths.

We are clearly not testing anywhere near the amount of people that have had/got it. I'd say Germany's stats are actually representitive of the true number of deaths per person that catches it and our stats are wrong.
 
Ban-jani said:
No mate, you’re just totally not getting it are you.

Let me spell it out for you in capitals, please concentrate, this is the last time:

THEY RELEASED INFORMATION IN DECEMBER THAT THE VIRUS EXISTED BUT COVERED UP THAT IT WAS TRANSMISSIBLE BETWEEN HUMANS UNTIL THE 3RD WEEK OF JANUARY.

Is that understood now?

Good.

Taiwan said early January it was transmissible and shut transport from areas of China. The WHO ignored them.
Click to expand...

what is it with you? Are you on the WUM again?

9th Jan WHO report - According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.

Thats not 3 weeks from 31st December - you may wish to consult a calendar to prove that as you don't accept anything but your own idea.

WHO acting on what China tells them at an early - where the outbreak was from. Taiwan - which wasn't the epicentre - said different - who do you believe? The country suffering the outbreak or a country who is hostile to them? I guess the WHO have to go with what they are hearing from China and try to do other background investigations. Its not their place to shit the world up everytime someone sneezes in fucking Auckland.

I am not seeking to support either side but your vitriolic hatred for anything that questions your view is frankly becoming disturbing. As others have said it seems you are on a mission to WUM, wind up and derail
 
Chippy_boy said:
Mate - let it drop. Who cares, what are you going to do, never eat chicken chow mein ever again? They can probably stand that.
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Why should I let it go?

The government of the 2nd most powerful country on earth is covering up epidemics and tens of thousands of deaths. How can you let it go?

I’m certainly not going to when people are acting as apologists for them.
 
I hope people don’t take it out in the Chinese people. They are not to blame. I had a Chinese from my local takeaway the other night and he said his business will most likely go. Such a shame.

Fuck me this is tough for everyone - I hope everyone is ok and bearing up. Heard the former owner of the shamrock pub in Ancoats died of it today - only 72 and quite a character.
 
bluethrunthru said:
what is it with you? Are you on the WUM again?

9th Jan WHO report - According to Chinese authorities, the virus in question can cause severe illness in some patients and does not transmit readily between people.

Thats not 3 weeks from 31st December - you may wish to consult a calendar to prove that as you don't accept anything but your own idea.

WHO acting on what China tells them at an early - where the outbreak was from. Taiwan - which wasn't the epicentre - said different - who do you believe? The country suffering the outbreak or a country who is hostile to them? I guess the WHO have to go with what they are hearing from China and try to do other background investigations. Its not their place to shit the world up everytime someone sneezes in fucking Auckland.

I am not seeking to support either side but your vitriolic hatred for anything that questions your view is frankly becoming disturbing. As others have said it seems you are on a mission to WUM, wind up and derail
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No he’s still not getting it.

Believe me I’m not wumming, who am I trying to wind up? I’m trying to get you to see why your defence of China is wrong.

That January date wasn’t the last one in which the WHO stated there’s no evidence of human to human transmission, they also did a week later and it was at least 3 weeks from December 31st it was published it could be pass human to human.

My argument isn’t necessarily against the WHO, although they were at best very naive in the first few weeks believing China, at worst lying for them. Taiwan and Japan think the latter.

But my argument is against the Chinese state, because if Taiwan knew, so did they and yet they’re still lying about their deaths.

I can’t understand why more people aren’t livid with the them, but I really can’t fathom why there’s an active defence.

Can you not see that the Chinese government have withheld crucial information early on and tried to bury it? Doctors and would-be-whistle-blowers vanishing. Thousands of deaths unaccountable. It’s one of the biggest coverups in history.
 
worsleyweb said:
I hope people don’t take it out in the Chinese people. They are not to blame. I had a Chinese from my local takeaway the other night and he said his business will most likely go. Such a shame.

Fuck me this is tough for everyone - I hope everyone is ok and bearing up. Heard the former owner of the shamrock pub in Ancoats died of it today - only 72 and quite a character.
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I hope people wouldn’t.

It’s their government that deserve it.

Even Chinese citizens realise.
 
meltonblue said:
They didn’t know it definitely was at that stage though, about a week or two after they had evidence of it passing between families but still didn’t know if it was sustained H2H transmission.
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You’re telling me the Chinese Gov didn’t know it was for 3 weeks, whilst Taiwan did?

I’m sorry but I just don’t believe that for a second.
 
True_Blue69 said:
It will correct itself in what way? Are you saying they will have more deaths or is our stats that are wrong? Iceland have tested all residents and have just over 1,000 infections (1 per around 300) and 2 deaths.

We are clearly not testing anywhere near the amount of people that have had/got it. I'd say Germany's stats are actually representitive of the true number of deaths per person that catches it and our stats are wrong.
Click to expand...

Our death rate will drop to around 0.6-0.8% Once they have the testing capacity to test everyone.
 
Ban-jani said:
No mate, you’re just totally not getting it are you.

Let me spell it out for you in capitals, please concentrate, this is the last time:

THEY RELEASED INFORMATION IN DECEMBER THAT THE VIRUS EXISTED BUT COVERED UP THAT IT WAS TRANSMISSIBLE BETWEEN HUMANS UNTIL THE 3RD WEEK OF JANUARY.

Is that understood now?

Good.

Taiwan said early January it was transmissible and shut transport from areas of China. The WHO ignored them.
Click to expand...

Taiwan said they thought there was a high risk of it, not that it definitely was

On the cover up, the genome was shared the day the first patient died. That’s not exactly indicative of a cover up nor is it that long into a lifecycle of a new virus. As soon as China did confirm H2H transmission they went into lockdown three days later, far earlier in their cycle than a lot of subsequent countries have done.

They absolutely could have been more transparent at the beginning (although hindsight is a wonderful thing to an extent with that) and the shunning of Taiwan in general, although a separate point, is always a depressing story.

The reason you’ll get some defending China to an extent though is a pushback against the narrative being set in some western countries (ourselves and the States in particular) to pin even more blame on them to distract from their own failings and to also sow the first seeds in the next battle, which will be the economic one to come after this.

China aren’t accountable for the guidance that the WHO sets. It was them that said to continue with international travel post China’s lockdown and took so long to call a pandemic, both of which caused far more damage than how long it took for the confirmation of H2H transmission. It was some of the western governments that dragged their heels to react whilst not just Taiwan but South Korea and Singapore in particular got their act together.

Ultimately though, right now none of that matters. How we get through this and how we recover from it is down to ourselves as a society and our own government. So far they’ve done some things badly (only sorting out the testing of front line workers late last week as a prime example) and some things very well. The blame game right now means nothing apart from dealing with the present as that’s all that matters, the full post mortem needs to come a long way down the line yet.
 
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Ban-jani said:
No he’s still not getting it.

Believe me I’m not wumming, who am I trying to wind up? I’m trying to get you to see why your defence of China is wrong.

That January date wasn’t the last one in which the WHO stated there’s no evidence of human to human transmission, they also did a week later and it was at least 3 weeks from December 31st it was published it could be pass human to human.

My argument isn’t necessarily against the WHO, although they were at best very naive in the first few weeks believing China, at worst lying for them. Taiwan and Japan think the latter.

But my argument is against the Chinese state, because if Taiwan knew, so did they and yet they’re still lying about their deaths.

I can’t understand why more people aren’t livid with the them, but I really can’t fathom why there’s an active defence.

Can you not see that the Chinese government have withheld crucial information early on and tried to bury it? Doctors and would-be-whistle-blowers vanishing. Thousands of deaths unaccountable. It’s one of the biggest coverups in history.
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WUM - BLocked - byeee.........................................
 
meltonblue said:
Taiwan said they thought there was a high risk of it, not that it definitely was.

On the cover up, the genome was shared the day the first patient died. That’s not exactly indicative of a cover up nor is it that long into a lifecycle of a new virus. As soon as China did confirm H2H transmission they went into lockdown three days later, far earlier in their cycle than a lot of subsequent countries have done.

They absolutely could have been more transparent at the beginning (although hindsight is a wonderful thing to an extent with that) and the shunning of Taiwan in general, although a separate point, is always a depressing story.

The reason you’ll get some defending China to an extent though is a pushback against the narrative being set in some western countries (ourselves and the States in particular) to pin even more blame on them to distract from their own failings and to also sow the first seeds in the next battle, which will be the economic one to come after this.

China aren’t accountable for the guidance that the WHO sets. It was them that said to continue with international travel post China’s lockdown and took so long to call a pandemic, both of which caused far more damage than how long it took for the confirmation of H2H transmission. It was some of the western governments that dragged their heels to react whilst not just Taiwan but South Korea and Singapore in particular got their act together.

Ultimately though, right now none of that matters. How we get through this and how we recover from it is down to ourselves as a society and our own government. So far they’ve done some things badly (only sorting out the testing of front line workers late last week as a prime example) and some things very well. The blame game right now means nothing apart from dealing with the pr sent as that’s all that matters, the full post mortem needs to come a long way down the line yet.
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First of all I’m inside all day every day, who I post about on here makes zero difference in the outside world and the response to this disease. All we’re doing is chatting about it. So playing the blame game or not makes little difference. I’d hope we’re all obeying the advice and rules and that’s all we can do.

The pushback is purely down to an anti-western, pro-east approach some of the modern left has nailed its flag to. The same poster I’m arguing with who’s refusing to even acknowledge any wrong doing of the country in which this spread from, is running up records for anti-UK government posts.

Back to the actual topic. Taiwan obviously knew it was transmissible of H2H as they stopped travel from China and considering their location, they’ve had the greatest response to this out of everyone.

They knew very early the dangers and yet it escaped the Chinese Government and WHO? Not a chance mate, not a chance.

Japan are arguing the WHO and China are allies and involved together. I’m absolutely certain China lied, I’m reasonably confident the WHO protected them.

China did enforce a lockdown after the first published death, again I’m not having their figures, but this was already far too late and was spread to thousands of people. They enforced the lockdown when they had no choice as they’d lost control.

It’s important to tell the truth with your figures and nobody, not even their own poor citizens, believe a word they’re saying. Other countries may have thought they’d beat it and have copied their strategy, that’s how important it is.

The UK government does deserve criticism, the PPE, testing and the fact people were walking through our airports without any further regulations was a disgrace.

But they’re not even half as culpable as China is.
 
Ban-jani said:
@Vic

You’ve bollocks the quote up so I’ve had to reply like this.

They knew what was going on, they closed travel from the Hubei province before the WHO announced there was human to human contact. They stated that was happening on December 31st and were ignored and silenced by China’s power. The WHO don’t allow them to join their organisation and instead take China’s view that they’re not independent.

I seriously wish people would drop the Communist Party love in, on this forum. They should be the least popular government on the planet right now.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/world-asia-52088167





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Sorry about the quote, now corrected.

All that, and you still haven't answered the question. What did Taiwan know, and when did they know it?

I was hoping for more than "citation needed" tweets.

Let me take your unsubstantiated claims.

They knew what was going on. What did they know was going on? They knew there was an outbreak of pneumonia in Wuhan, and started quarantine procedures on flights from 31st December, and within a week had tested 1,317 passengers and crew - 10 individuals displayed symptoms. One was sent to the hospital for medical attention and the other nine individuals had recovered.

They closed travel from the Hubei province before the WHO announced there was human to human contact. They stated that was happening on December 31st and were ignored and silenced by China’s power. Other than tweets, what's the source for that latter claim? WHO knew by 21 January there was human-to-human transmission. They had their first confirmed case (a Taiwanese woman who worked in Wuhan), and a leading infectious disease expert in China strongly advised travelers against visiting Wuhan. Taiwan did not close travel; they reminded the public to avoid all non-essential travels to Wuhan. This was five days after Taiwan had sent two medical experts to Wuhan to find out more about the outbreak and control measures; they'd visited the local hospital to learn more about treatment and infection control measures. On 25 January they advised people to avoid non-essential trips to all of Hubei; they banned Chinese travellers from Hubei on 25 January.

The WHO don’t allow them to join their organisation and instead take China’s view that they’re not independent. Well that's true; Taiwan isn't a member of the UN either. The idea that WHO was therefore suppressing information from Taiwan is unsubstantiated.
 
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