COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Fame Monster said:
That just says the risk is low but the same as other public transport and that the virus can be spread in multiple ways. I think we’ll agree to disagree anyway mate, I think you’re getting enough shit from everyone else haha.
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No he isn't.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Can any of you cite one case of a death caused by lack of PPE? Just one will do where the death is directly attributable to someone who should have been using PPE and didn't because there wasn't any who subsequently died.
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Here you go. Gerallt Davies, well known to me and a wonderful man who passed tragically exactly because of it
"Welsh paramedic who was honoured with MBE dies after contracting coronavirus - Wales Online" https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/...es-ambulance-swansea-coronavirus-18120742.amp
 
shemnel said:
this is an interesting line of argument, and one i propose is not entirely fair.

I dont think anyone can, at this time, cite direct proof that a lack of PPE actually caused someone's death. Even if you had a healthcare fatality in which that person did not wear an apron, you still cannot say not wearing that PPE was the cause of death (coronavirus was). However, there do exist co-morbidities, other drivers and variables and other factors that could facilitate the catching of the virus. This is very much like the argument regarding poverty, and whether it, itself, kills (or the myriad situations and knock on effects). I dont think there is direct proof that motorcycle helmets stop you from getting killed, as the person who dies not wearing one is already dead to test again.

I think just as people cannot cite a case of lack of PPE as an actual cause of death, you cannot claim the opposite that it is a strawman - the data is building but for now not enough is known about the various healthcare situations from around the UK and indeed around the world. I dont think there is direct proof that motorcycle helmets stop you from getting killed, as the person who dies not wearing one is already dead to test again.

some thoughts;
https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30101-8/fulltext
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006141
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The other point is can anyone prove that CV killed those with underlying conditions.
It certainly hastened their death but was it the actual thing that eventually resulted in death? Maybe more prone to a heart attack which actually killed them.
Like with HIV, many actually died with pneumonia but their frailty was HIV catalysed.
The point is that PPE prevents the likelihood of a virus being transmitted between people, what happens when it transmits is dependant on that new persons capability to resist its potential fatal consequences.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Can any of you cite one case of a death caused by lack of PPE? Just one will do where the death is directly attributable to someone who should have been using PPE and didn't because there wasn't any who subsequently died.
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A fairly straightforward example of the One True Scotsman argument. Which we're taught to ignore ;)
 
Finding it hard to comment on the constant change in what's the way forward, surely until theres a vaccine then a lockdown and mass testìng is the way forward.

I believe our lockdown has been half hearted at best, and should have been stronger earlier, I feel for anyone who is having to go out and work during these times.

I feel awful even typing this but I wonder what the statistics are for having contracted covid 19 amongst those who have had to go out to work. I dont just mean frontline workers, but shop workers, bus drivers, construction workers etc, wouldn't, this give us a true reflection of how things currently stand and whether an easing of current measures should even be up for discussion.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
did any of them die?
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I think we can judge your attitude by what you said about a doctor who wanted to be tested because he thought he had Covid.

Gelsons Dad said:
...All the test kits are prioritised to saving lives by testing the cases ...The fucking doc will either get better in 5-7 days or get tested because they are fucked. Ok I may be paraphrasing a little but these stupid cunts should be well aware of the situation but despite their 15 years in the service are still as thick as pig shit and need a fucking good talking to...
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And yes, he had got Covid so could have been infecting others if he hadn't got a test from a private clinic.
 
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SilverFox2 said:
The other point is can anyone prove that CV killed those with underlying conditions.
It certainly hastened their death but was it the actual thing that eventually resulted in death? Maybe more prone to a heart attack which actually killed them.
Like with HIV, many actually died with pneumonia but their frailty was HIV catalysed.
The point is that PPE prevents the likelihood of a virus being transmitted between people, what happens when it transmits is dependant on that new persons capability to resist its potential fatal consequences.
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yes good points.

and moves onto the tricky subject about covid-19 and the recording of death.
 
BlueHammer85 said:
why though ? surely 90% shops are closed ?
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That is exactly what my mother commented on. There is a market place which doubles up as a car park on non market days. You would not have been able to get in. There is a police man lives near us and I was talking to him and he says all the local towns/villages are the same. He says you disperse them, go onto the next town, and by the time you return they are all back. It is mental.
 
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