COVID-19 — Coronavirus

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Are Lingus Dublin to Beijing just flown over Wythenshawe. Just thought I'd mention it.
 
The Light Was Yellow Sir said:
Nobody died due to no PPE? How can you possibly know that?
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He doesn't know that, it's an absolutely ridiculous statement, my guess is pulled out of his arse!

By his logic, PPE is unimportant, perhaps we should send people back into the coal mines with a canary and a lantern and save a fortune?

My word, there are some 'odd people' on here.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
The UK always had ventilator capacity. More tests doesn't save lives. Nobody died due to no PPE. It's a straw man used to attack the government.

When do you suggest the ban should have been in place? WHO said no need at the beginning of FEB. By that time the UK was seeded anyway.

So many people on an aeroplane?
You do know the air is cleaner on an aircraft than on any other mass transport system. Aircraft have a flow rate of around 5l per second per passenger and it comes in clean having been at temperatures above 250°C before cooling and then gets filtered through true HEPA before recycling. Air enters the cabin from above and vents through the cabin floor so unless someone coughs in your face or you spend the flight lying on the floor you are in one of the safest environments possible. Buses? Trams? Trains? Much more likely to catch something there.
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I’ve read some shit in my time your fucking full of it, how do you know no ones died of lack of ppe are you privy to that information, while your sat there typing away nurses and doctors have been tackling this virus without the proper equipment for periods of time. and yes I know 1st hand so don’t come on here posting shite
 
I am currently on a lockdown with someone I provide care to within my job role and will have been here for 32 hours when I finish tomorrow. My concerns are the amount of NHS/ support staff that are dying through contracting the virus. In my addled mind it can only be happening through 3 ways
They have contracted it away from work
They have contracted it through direct work with somebody through their work role
They are contaminated when they remove the appropriate PPE
There may be other reasons but to me they would appear to be the most obvious.
That's what personally I find scary as until we show symptoms we are still not being tested
 
Gelsons Dad said:
The UK always had ventilator capacity. More tests doesn't save lives. Nobody died due to no PPE. It's a straw man used to attack the government.
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I've read some mind-boggling things on here but that's easily one of the maddest. Can you back that up with any evidence? Do you think PPE is pointless then? As others have said, its almost Trump-like.
 
twosips said:
I've read some mind-boggling things on here but that's easily one of the maddest. Can you back that up with any evidence? Do you think PPE is pointless then? As others have said, its almost Trump-like.
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He is a big trump fan although gone awol from the nightly briefing as trump gets more and more out of control
 
Gelsons Dad said:
The UK always had ventilator capacity. More tests doesn't save lives. Nobody died due to no PPE. It's a straw man used to attack the government.

When do you suggest the ban should have been in place? WHO said no need at the beginning of FEB. By that time the UK was seeded anyway.

So many people on an aeroplane?
You do know the air is cleaner on an aircraft than on any other mass transport system. Aircraft have a flow rate of around 5l per second per passenger and it comes in clean having been at temperatures above 250°C before cooling and then gets filtered through true HEPA before recycling. Air enters the cabin from above and vents through the cabin floor so unless someone coughs in your face or you spend the flight lying on the floor you are in one of the safest environments possible. Buses? Trams? Trains? Much more likely to catch something there.
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The plane air stuff is very interesting & doing what you do I'd in no way doubt the information but, there's always a but, the amount of people over the years who have been ill after a holiday (not necessarily from beach holidays with big temperature changes) that I know would fly ;) in the face of your comments.
 
missing person said:
Why are people quoting the who biggest bunch of frauds going tedros is a monster.
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I know when it was first announced in Wuhan, China , advised by this bunch of tossers, immediately shut down all internal flights from Wuhan to the rest of China to prevent contagion to other areas of China.

meanwhile China still allowed international flights in and out of Wuhan for a period of time.
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Can any of you sight one case of a death caused by lack of PPE? Just one will do where the death is directly attributable to someone who should have been using PPE and didn't because there wasn't any who subsequently died.
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Plenty of people have got infected because of little or no PPE,loads of nhs drs and nurses plus carers saying how dangerous the low levels of it is to them,it is less of a stretch to say some will have died because of it than your nobody died because of no PPE,at this time we have no post mortum results,they are confidental and subject to investigation later on so you are asking for the impossible at this stage

Two drs have started a legal challenge v the gov for lack of PPE,a bit much fir something not important ...

We have a promise of an investigation into all 200 + of them will be done says the gov,to see why they died,don't hold your breath though,they want to cover up the lack of PPE for political reasons

Stop digging !
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Can any of you cite one case of a death caused by lack of PPE? Just one will do where the death is directly attributable to someone who should have been using PPE and didn't because there wasn't any who subsequently died.
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Spoken like the government's defence barrister. When Hancock said they were investigating whether medics caught it "in the line of duty" or at home I said it sounded like a pre-emptive defence.

Vic said:
This seemed to pass unremarked a week ago from Hancock.

"The Health Secretary expressed the government's belief that none of the deaths was due to the reported shortages in PPE. 'We aren't aware of any link from shortages of PPE to any of these deaths.'"

What is going on in their minds?
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Gelsons Dad said:
Can any of you cite one case of a death caused by lack of PPE? Just one will do where the death is directly attributable to someone who should have been using PPE and didn't because there wasn't any who subsequently died.
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this is an interesting line of argument, and one i propose is not entirely fair.

I dont think anyone can, at this time, cite direct proof that a lack of PPE actually caused someone's death. Even if you had a healthcare fatality in which that person did not wear an apron, you still cannot say not wearing that PPE was the cause of death (coronavirus was). However, there do exist co-morbidities, other drivers and variables and other factors that could facilitate the catching of the virus. This is very much like the argument regarding poverty, and whether it, itself, kills (or the myriad situations and knock on effects). I dont think there is direct proof that motorcycle helmets stop you from getting killed, as the person who dies not wearing one is already dead to test again.

I think just as people cannot cite a case of lack of PPE as an actual cause of death, you cannot claim the opposite that it is a strawman - the data is building but for now not enough is known about the various healthcare situations from around the UK and indeed around the world.

some thoughts;
https://www.journalofhospitalinfection.com/article/S0195-6701(20)30101-8/fulltext
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2006141
 
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shackattack said:
I am currently on a lockdown with someone I provide care to within my job role and will have been here for 32 hours when I finish tomorrow. My concerns are the amount of NHS/ support staff that are dying through contracting the virus. In my addled mind it can only be happening through 3 ways
They have contracted it away from work
They have contracted it through direct work with somebody through their work role
They are contaminated when they remove the appropriate PPE
There may be other reasons but to me they would appear to be the most obvious.
That's what personally I find scary as until we show symptoms we are still not being tested
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People like you I doff my cap to m8 keep safe
 
Gelsons Dad said:
Give me one name. Just one.
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Right now, nobody can prove beyond doubt that the lack of PPE directly caused them to die, however any thinking person can see that the PPE will help reduce viral load. It is believed that in many cases it's the high viral load that may be killing young, fit doctors and nurses.

If one of your children were a fireperson for example, would you be happy with them running into burning buildings without helmets or BA? They may get away with it most times, but if they're unlucky the fumes or falling debris may kill them.

In this case replace the BA with N95 masks and goggles (at the very least) and replace the fumes with a high viral load.

Simple enough?
 
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