Another new Brexit thread

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Gaudion M said:
Delusional!

We either get no deal or a very limited deal that just keeps the ports moving - that will be hailed as a great success. I can 100% guarantee we will be worse of as a result of it.
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Its better than the 100% guarantee we would never leave i suppose.
 
west didsblue said:
I think it’s more that we’re in the shit anyway and any additional Brexit related shit can be blamed on the pandemic.
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Agree, the pandemic presents an excellent opportunity for a scapegoat and to stifle remainers whinging. Its a straightforward case of blaming any bad economic news for the next 5 years on the pandemic and even the slightest good news attributed to the govts handling of brexit. I can see how frustrating this may be for some.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I have been keen to look for signs that there is indeed a real shift in the UK's stance to these negotiations - of course this has not been easy due to the pace of them being impacted by the pandemic - but I believe that the resultant timetable pressure could be a positive for the UK - and I believe that there are signs that we are gaining progress in the upward challenge.

Key is for Barnier and, more importantly, the leaders of the main EU nations, to realise that the UK would walkaway rather than submit. When facing Robbins and May's perpetual acquiescence it was easy for the EU to maintain unanimity across the EU27 - I think that if we hold our positions as June approaches then Barnier will start to get some 'pointers' from key countries and the EU's positions on these key areas will be softened towards accommodation of the UK's - if they don't - then on balance we are better to walkaway anyway.

There are current signs that the UK are indeed resolute in maintaining our positions that an FTA must reflect such deals that the EU has with other nations - and not contain 'special' clauses to provide the EU control over UK policy - this is as it should be and very encouraging - as the bleating from Barnier, others in the EU and Remainers reflects.

On fishing, I found this stance encouraging......

"A UK source on Thursday said no legal text had yet been put forward by Britain because the two sides were currently “talking past each other on the issue”.

And they warned: “We have certain fundamentals on this. At the end of the year we become a country with control over our coastal waters, we become an independent coastal state, we will base our tests on science and it will be up to us to determine access by annual negotiations. That is just fundamental.”

They added: “If the EU wants to talk us about how that will work on that basis then fine.”

But they warned: "There are some fundamentals that we’re not going to change and not going to move on... They’re not just negotiating positions, because they’re what an independent state does. An independent state has control over its coastal waters. “

Mr Barnier last week said "no progress" had been made on the issue of fisheries, and attacked Britain for having "not put forward a legal text”.

He added: “The EU will not agree any future economic partnership that does not include a balanced, sustainable and long-term solution on fisheries — that should be crystal clear.”

But a British source hit back, and made clear the UK would be weighing up “whether this is a productive process or not” as a crucial high-level meeting to decide on whether or not talks will continue looms.

They said: “What we would ideally want to have seen, what we’re wanting now, is an EU understanding that we’re not going to subordinate our laws to them in any areas. We’re not going to accept the European Court’s involvement in settling disputes between us...

“If we can see that they understand our points on that then I think we’re going to be able to reach agreement. At the moment I’m not sure they quite have but it maybe takes a bit of time for some of this to sink in.”

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...-collapse-over-fisheries-unless-eu-backs-down

This is the style of approach and language that we should have been expressing/hearing 3 years ago - what a disaster the May-led government was for the UK
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There is an assumption that having the European Court would never be to our advantage. If we had a dispute with another EU state, the EC could adjudicate. If we had a dispute with Iceland or Norway, it would be the EU versus Iceland or Norway. Now we will be on our own, parties to some international fishing agreements, and trying to be admitted to other local area agreements (all of which expect cooperation between coastal states over fish stocks but none of which have any mechanism of enforcement).

And while we get exclusive access to our waters, it's still not sure how we'd expand our fleet to exploit it (given the involvement of foreign owners and foreign crews in the existing fleet).

And (I'm really not sure how serious this is) there's evidence of fish moving north because of global warming. What if "our fish" emigrate to Icelandic waters?
 
Vic said:
And (I'm really not sure how serious this is) there's evidence of fish moving north because of global warming. What if "our fish" emigrate to Icelandic waters?
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This thread and it has seen some quite remarkable moments over the last 4 years and its numerous incarnations has just been taken to a whole new level.

"Fuck brexit off guys or the fish will emigrate"
 
blueinsa said:
This thread and it has seen some quite remarkable moments over the last 4 years and its numerous incarnations has just been taken to a whole new level.

"Fuck brexit off guys or the fish will emigrate"
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We'd have to import more from either Africa or Eastern Europe. Obviously we'd pay them less but that's another story.
 
Vic said:
And (I'm really not sure how serious this is) there's evidence of fish moving north because of global warming. What if "our fish" emigrate to Icelandic waters?
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Given that there are increasing reports of more exotic species from warmer waters turning up off our cost that sort of movement is highly likely
 
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bluethrunthru said:
Given that there are increasing reports of more exotic species from warmer waters turning up off our cost that sort of movement is highly likely
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Lovely - Mediterranean diet here we come. Every cloud and all that. I don't know why these racist attitudes about foreign fish exist. Surely it's time to get over the whole 'they come over here and take our fishes jobs' thing?
 
blueinsa said:
No its full steam ahead for a FTA.

Unless you are saying the EU are intransigent and not interested in negotiating?
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I’m saying we are not in a particularly strong position and even if we were the Coronavirus has over taken matters, in my eyes and we may not have the time, expertise and general logistical capabilities to have a mutually beneficial agreement

I would wait to see what the world looks like in 6-18 month time

The risk of no-deal in normal times was bad enough but now it is madness
 
Blue Hefner said:
I’m saying we are not in a particularly strong position and even if we were the Coronavirus has over taken matters, in my eyes and we may not have the time, expertise and general logistical capabilities to have a mutually beneficial agreement

I would wait to see what the world looks like in 6-18 month time

The risk of no-deal in normal times was bad enough but now it is madness
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I know you are mate but i entirely disagree.

All roads have always led to a FTA because too much is at stake for both sides for there not to be one.

This pandemic and its global effects on economies has just made it an absolute certainty as no one can afford anything else.

Negotiations are about posturing but i honestly think we will get a FTA or should I say, we and in the UK and EU will get a FTA.
 
Blue Hefner said:
I’m saying we are not in a particularly strong position and even if we were the Coronavirus has over taken matters, in my eyes and we may not have the time, expertise and general logistical capabilities to have a mutually beneficial agreement

I would wait to see what the world looks like in 6-18 month time

The risk of no-deal in normal times was bad enough but now it is madness
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I can honestly say I don't think I have heard of any problem in the world from trump to Putin, terrorism, pollution, food security, fuel, the economy and now PPE and even fish migration that can't be solved by just staying in the EU and giving them a fuck load of money every year. Why (just over) half the population don't believe this self evident truth is beyond me.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I can honestly say I don't think I have heard of any problem in the world from trump to Putin, terrorism, pollution, food security, fuel, the economy and now PPE and even fish migration that can't be solved by just staying in the EU and giving them a fuck load of money every year. Why (just over) half the population don't believe this self evident truth is beyond me.
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Why wasn’t you out clapping comrade? ;-)
 
House of cards ponzi scheme is finished, rejoiners I give you the solidarity that we have all witnessed. All sun and sea when its going swimmingly but as soon there is a hint of trouble, shut the borders, look after ones self and refuse to spread the debt in this our union. This virus is going to ruin all economies however the UK albeit in the shit also can introduce a fiscal policy whatever that may be as one. The EU 27 are rowing out of this in different directions the ones out of the Euro will fare better than the others except the rich Northern countries. The shit is going to hit the fan, they couldn't even agree on the budget for the next 7 Years never mind a fiscal plan for the EU 27 through the virus. The Rejoiners will be thanking us in years to come mark my words, even those with vested interest ie. idiotic in the first place to time share, those that own holiday homes or those benefitting from getting EU grants (the rich). I would rather my Tax go to getting our economy up and running again than give it to the EU countries who want to punish us for getting our sovereignty back.
 
Gaudion M said:
Delusional!

We either get no deal or a very limited deal that just keeps the ports moving - that will be hailed as a great success. I can 100% guarantee we will be worse of as a result of it.
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blueinsa said:
Its better than the 100% guarantee we would never leave i suppose.
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Indeed - I remember @Gaudion M used to post with such certainty that we would never leave....
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I can honestly say I don't think I have heard of any problem in the world from trump to Putin, terrorism, pollution, food security, fuel, the economy and now PPE and even fish migration that can't be solved by just staying in the EU and giving them a fuck load of money every year. Why (just over) half the population don't believe this self evident truth is beyond me.
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My point was about timing and logistics. Not about fish or Russia.

We are leaving/have left the EU, I’m not really interested in that debate. The debate is now about moving forward and if it takes a little longer then it takes a little longer, no one budgeted for a global pandemic and I’m sure you wouldn’t say that is some sort of London-centric agenda to keep us in?

If we can get a FTA soon great but why not extend if necessary?
 
blueinsa said:
I know you are mate but i entirely disagree.

All roads have always led to a FTA because too much is at stake for both sides for there not to be one.

This pandemic and its global effects on economies has just made it an absolute certainty as no one can afford anything else.

Negotiations are about posturing but i honestly think we will get a FTA or should I say, we and in the UK and EU will get a FTA.
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The only FTA we’ll get is the sort that a trade union gets with a company before a strike.

For those that aren’t familiar with industrial relations that’s a Failure To Agree.
 
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