UEFA FFP investigation - CAS decision to be announced Monday, 13th July 9.30am BST

What do you think will be the outcome of the CAS hearing?

  • Two-year ban upheld

    Votes: 197 13.1%

  • Ban reduced to one year

    Votes: 422 28.2%

  • Ban overturned and City exonerated

    Votes: 815 54.4%

  • Other

    Votes: 65 4.3%
  • Total voters
    1,499
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Prestwich_Blue said:
My analogy for all this would be that you were doing 32 in a 30 zone then being told they'd changed the limit to 20 later that day (effectively as happened with UEFA and their changing of the FFP toolkit) but effective at 8am. But as you weren't to know, they'll let you off with a £50 fine.

Then, a few years later, you get a summons for the same offence saying that they'd checked their equipment, which turned out to be faulty. They're not 100% sure but think you were doing closer to 40 so they're taking you to court for dangerous driving.
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I’m not going to claim to know more about this than you PB and have appreciated reading about it all from what you’ve written, but is it not more like:

Caught doing 32 in a 30, authority retrospectively changed to a 20 and so said you were wildly speeding. Agreed with authorities to “take a pinch” and a fine and not to question the fact that they changed their own rules after the event to maintain good relations.

Then years later get accused of stealing the fuel in said car you were speeding in and hence shouldnt have been able to go that fast in the first place.

We’re now appealing that to say we earned that fuel fair and square.
 
Just heard a whisper from my source that our plan is shaping up nicely. We've sent a team into CAS HQ and they've been in and taped guns behind the cisterns in the gents. At a given signal, Khaldoon, Soriano and Berrada will go to the toilet, occupy all the stalls, take the guns and come out shooting. Seems legit. They were thinking of getting in Gerry Creaney, Lee Bradbury and Fat Bob Taylor to be the shooters but thought better of it fortunately.
 
DorisBlue said:
I’m not going to claim to know more about this than you PB and have appreciated reading about it all from what you’ve written, but is it not more like:

Caught doing 32 in a 30, authority retrospectively changed to a 20 and so said you were wildly speeding. Agreed with authorities to “take a pinch” and a fine and not to question the fact that they changed their own rules after the event to maintain good relations.

Then years later get accused of stealing the fuel in said car you were speeding in and hence shouldnt have been able to go that fast in the first place.

We’re now appealing that to say we earned that fuel fair and square.
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I think you've got this.
 
Ric said:
I think we can only actually appeal the CAS verdict on very limited grounds (such as procedural rules not being followed etc), not just that we didn't agree with the outcome. Presumably the next step, if we lost, would be to challenge the very legality of FFP itself. They wouldn't suspend any CL ban for that.
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That’s really disappointing.
 
A couple of things to clear up from earlier in the thread please. Firstly in 2014 did we open our books and business strategy to Uefa and then those details were passed on to Manchester United via Gill. Secondly. If we lose and are banned for two years and by then the new Uefa qualifying rules have kicked in and we are not invited, would winning the premiership guarantee our entry. I thought that was what Ceferin said recently.
 
DorisBlue said:
What if you had lied and you weren’t/were the driver when you said you was/wasnt, and an independent court decided you had lied.

I’m not saying we are guilty. I’m very hopeful we aren’t. We’re just placing a lot of faith in club executives that have not been involved with the club as long as we have.

If we are found guilty by cas we can not keep blindly saying that we are the only ones honest and telling the truth
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You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions here. Do you think we've lied? Do you believe we've been before an independent court yet? If we are found guilty by CAS... CAS will not find us guilty or innocent because it's actually ruling on an appeal.

If all your assumptions actually come about then you might have some grounds for questioning our execs, but at the moment why should we lack confidence and trust in them. But City's question will be then, why should we have to justify to UEFA our spending and investment decisions?
 
Prater70 said:
A couple of things to clear up from earlier in the thread please. Firstly in 2014 did we open our books and business strategy to Uefa and then those details were passed on to Manchester United via Gill. Secondly. If we lose and are banned for two years and by then the new Uefa qualifying rules have kicked in and we are not invited, would winning the premiership guarantee our entry. I thought that was what Ceferin said recently.
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The 'firstly' point:
Sounds like utter rubbish to me. A conspiracy theory with no evidence to support it, and every club would be concerned if that happened.
We wouldn't need to open books, it was all in the accounts and submitted FTP info. City were never going to meet the FTP limits.

The 'secondly' point:
I can't see that any unbanned champion club would be denied entry. I don't know what you mean by new qualifying rules though.
 
If things don't go our way in court, is there anything to stop us setting up the CFG Cup next season on champion's league nights with a huge prize for the winner?
 
DorisBlue said:
I think we’re getting too deep into the metaphor here.

Ultimately that has already happened in a UEFA court. We are now appealing to an independent court. So WE need to prove innocence (i assume) not them proving guilt.
Our evidence has been claimed to be irrefutable (as I’m sure most people say in their own defence), but if that proves not to be the case ...
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Forgive me if I’m wrong - but I’ve not seen the evidence that proves guilt - shouldn’t that be the first step - surely innocent until proven guilty.
 
BluessinceHydeRoad said:
You're making a hell of a lot of assumptions here. Do you think we've lied? Do you believe we've been before an independent court yet? If we are found guilty by CAS... CAS will not find us guilty or innocent because it's actually ruling on an appeal.

If all your assumptions actually come about then you might have some grounds for questioning our execs, but at the moment why should we lack confidence and trust in them. But City's question will be then, why should we have to justify to UEFA our spending and investment decisions?
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I’m not making any assumptions. Thats my point. I’m trying to make sure we aren’t.

I haven’t a clue whether we’ve lied or not. That would be legally sensitive information.

No I don’t believe it has been before an independent court yet. I believe uefa to be well and truly bent.
But that doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong in this case.

I’m trying to make sure we aren’t convinced of innocence before the case has even been heard or before any of us have even seen anything.

Have faith, sure, trust in the club, sure, but if the appeal is not successful be prepared for what that will mean.
 
DorisBlue said:
What if you had lied and you weren’t/were the driver when you said you was/wasnt, and an independent court decided you had lied.

I’m not saying we are guilty. I’m very hopeful we aren’t. We’re just placing a lot of faith in club executives that have not been involved with the club as long as we have.

If we are found guilty by cas we can not keep blindly saying that we are the only ones honest and telling the truth
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Why not , we may be .
 
DorisBlue said:
That is my concern when reading this thread. I get the feeling an increasing number of us will only accept it to be a proper legal process if we are cleared. That may not necessarily be the case. In this scenario we need to be able to deal with it or it will define our club for years
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Your concern is fake. You seem unable to take onboard the point that the rules we have supposedly broken (don’t know if we have or haven’t), were brought in 3 years after Sheikh Mansour’s investment. They were invented using the examples of Leeds United and Portsmouth as examples, to ensure clubs are run within their means. All very noble.

unfortunately that’s bollocks. The G14 had seen Chelsea muscle their way into top table. With the emergence of investment at City and PSG, with potentially more to come, the G14 decided to try shutting us out. They wanted to make sure that ability to spend money would be based solely on gate receipts and shirt sales in the Far East. Oddly enough, now these rules are going to get in the way of investment in those G14 clubs, they want to relax them.

I don’t know if we broke the rules. I don’t care. It’s the rules that are the issue. So if we get found guilty, and you are hoping to find a load of City fans ready to condemn the clubs owners and wear sack cloth and ashes, you’ll be sadly disappointed.
 
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