Another new Brexit thread

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Frost to Select Committee...

‘Covid19 has not made any changes in priorities in Brexit negotiations. "I don't think it's changed anything," says UK chief negotiator David Frost’

Well of course it’s changed things you fucking dick.

Also Frost...

"We are still at a relatively early stage of negotiations" - UK's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost tells select committee. Just weeks before crunch decision must be made on fisheries and transition extension following high level stocktake.


Yeah, because everyone has been focused on the pandemic and current European focus is putting together a European Recovery Plan. That will be the pandemic that ‘hasn’t changed anything’. Moron.
 
The signals continue to be good that the pressure is being felt across the EU, Barnier setting out that they want an extension and looking to his erstwhile effective agents to rally support:

"The EU is "open" to a two-year Brexit delay, chief negotiator Michel Barnier has confirmed.

In a letter to the Westminster leaders of the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green Party and Alliance Party, Barnier said the option of an extension to the Brexit transition period is available if the UK wants it....."

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...year-brexit-delay-trade-talks-continue-stall/

Good and reassuring response:

"It is the UK Government’s “firm policy” not to extend the Brexit transition period, the country’s chief negotiator has said, after Brussels said it remained “open” to such a move.

David Frost told MPs on Wednesday that Britain prized its “economic and political freedom at the end of this year", as he rebuffed fresh calls from opposition parties to delay the date at which the UK will sharply diverge from EU rules."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...-david-frost-says-after-michel-barnier-letter

Just shows what can be achieved when the majority of your time and effort is not spent/wasted on dealing with people from within the UK trying to undermine the UK's negotiating position.

How depressing it is to consider what could have been achieved in 3 years if we had not been led by a Remainer - just grateful May fucked up in 2017, if she had gained a decent majority she would have already cemented the UK into vassalage.
 
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Frost to Select Committee...

‘Covid19 has not made any changes in priorities in Brexit negotiations. "I don't think it's changed anything," says UK chief negotiator David Frost’

Well of course it’s changed things you fucking dick.

Also Frost...

"We are still at a relatively early stage of negotiations" - UK's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost tells select committee. Just weeks before crunch decision must be made on fisheries and transition extension following high level stocktake.


Yeah, because everyone has been focused on the pandemic and current European focus is putting together a European Recovery Plan. That will be the pandemic that ‘hasn’t changed anything’. Moron.
So basically covid isn't going to stop brexit, and there is still time for movement on both sides current negotiating positions. I can see why you are upset, but to quote Milk Jagger ' you can't always get what you want' :-)
 
So basically covid isn't going to stop brexit, and there is still time for movement on both sides current negotiating positions. I can see why you are upset, but to quote Milk Jagger ' you can't always get what you want' :-)

I’m not upset. I just despise stupidity.

It’s obvious Covid 19 has changed things. China is ripping up the international treaty we have with them over Hong Kong with Covid 19 as a pretext. There is a rush to shorten and get greater control of supply chains and move to regionalisation after Covid 19. The big three US, China and EU will be in a political and trade battle after Covid 19. The shape of the world, working practices in the developed world etc are all going to be changed by Covid 19. To pretend this has no impact on current UK/EU negotiations and relations is just dumb.
 
Debate on the EU recovery package...

The president (UVL) clarified though that this is an exceptional, temporary operation, not the genesis of a future EU treasury.’ @elmundo

Spoiler. It will be.
 
Frost to Select Committee...

‘Covid19 has not made any changes in priorities in Brexit negotiations. "I don't think it's changed anything," says UK chief negotiator David Frost’

Well of course it’s changed things you fucking dick.

Also Frost...

"We are still at a relatively early stage of negotiations" - UK's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost tells select committee. Just weeks before crunch decision must be made on fisheries and transition extension following high level stocktake.


Yeah, because everyone has been focused on the pandemic and current European focus is putting together a European Recovery Plan. That will be the pandemic that ‘hasn’t changed anything’. Moron.
You are just starting to sound a bit 'butt hurt' mate - I can understand your frustration and have a level of sympathy - just why does the head of the UK negotiating team not just do what Barnier wants??

IMO - Frost is clearly spot on to state:

‘Covid19 has not made any changes in priorities in Brexit negotiations. "I don't think it's changed anything," says UK chief negotiator David Frost’
Why would it have done? It is a terrible pandemic and causing major distractions - but the UK priorities of the Brexit negotiations have become (at last) to see the UK leave the EU as an independent nation and free of EU controls and regulations.​
Why would that priority have changed. OK - CV-19 could cause issues of logistics and timetable but not in the priority of intended outcomes.​

Therefore you are clearly wrong to state: " Well of course it’s changed things you fucking dick."

As I say - it makes you just sound a bit butt-hurt

Also Frost saying:

""We are still at a relatively early stage of negotiations" - UK's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost tells select committee. Just weeks before crunch decision must be made on fisheries and transition extension following high level stocktake."

Is a simple statement of fact - the negotiations are not making progress towards an agreement - we remain anchored in the early stages. The fact that we are only weeks away from a key milestone is also factual - but does not detract from the accuracy of his statement.

So your response of "Yeah, because everyone has been focused on the pandemic and current European focus is putting together a European Recovery Plan. That will be the pandemic that ‘hasn’t changed anything’. Moron"
is just more petulance born out of being butt-hurt it seems.

Congratulations to Frost would seem to be in order - what a difference there is in the dynamics from only 6 months ago. All the signs are now that the 'monkey is on the EU shoulder'. The EU is from where all the anxiety is emanating from with regard an extension being needed - the UK are sounding quite calm and sanguine.

Everyone knows that the EU like to have the high-ground and bully the other party in negotiations - it is seeming to be quite stressful for Barnier and he is coming across as increasingly rattled.

They just want an extension which can lead to another extension..... and they are perplexed that we are not playing our assigned role.

The exam question and statement from the UK to the EU at this time should be - "....can you, between now and the end of June, provide sufficient certainty and assurance that if we continue with negotiations beyond that point you will concede to the UK positions on LPF and other key areas identified?

If not, we will end the negotiations at the end of June and use the remaining months to prepare for no-deal. If so- we will continue the dialogue beyond June to put meat on the bones of sector agreements."

Simples really when you stop obsessing that the UK has some sort of duty to cave into the EU

I will resist the temptation to remind you that...…...
 
Look, Bill is a decent bloke who I feel I 'know' on here as a poster and a mod. I abhore his politics actually but still see him as fundamentally decent and someone I'd cheerfully have a pint with even if that means talking football rather than politics. It's a shame that you don't have the decency to remember we're all blues who would likely rub along just fine in person, hold your hands up to a mistake and move on.
He seems a great bloke from my limited catch-ups at matches. Does a lot to help fellow blues as and when he can and I suspect is highly regarded by those BM members that know him.

It was a shame to see someone like him have his post twisted for the purpose of cheap point scoring which is why I stepped in. Anyway - not getting drawn back into that.
 
The signals continue to be good that the pressure is being felt across the EU, Barnier setting out that they want an extension and looking to his erstwhile effective agents to rally support:

"The EU is "open" to a two-year Brexit delay, chief negotiator Michel Barnier has confirmed.

In a letter to the Westminster leaders of the SNP, Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru, SDLP, Green Party and Alliance Party, Barnier said the option of an extension to the Brexit transition period is available if the UK wants it....."

Good and reassuring response:

"It is the UK Government’s “firm policy” not to extend the Brexit transition period, the country’s chief negotiator has said, after Brussels said it remained “open” to such a move.

David Frost told MPs on Wednesday that Britain prized its “economic and political freedom at the end of this year", as he rebuffed fresh calls from opposition parties to delay the date at which the UK will sharply diverge from EU rules."

https://www.politicshome.com/news/a...-david-frost-says-after-michel-barnier-letter

Just shows what can be achieved when the majority of your time and effort is not spent/wasted on dealing with people trying to undermine the UK's negotiating position.

How depressing it is to consider what could have been achieved in 3 years if we had not been led by a Remainer - just grateful May fucked up in 2017, if she had gained a decent majority she would have already cemented the UK into vassalage.
I will herald an achievement once a fair deal is struck between the two entities. Nothing of substance has been achieved thus far.
 
I’m not upset. I just despise stupidity.

It’s obvious Covid 19 has changed things. China is ripping up the international treaty we have with them over Hong Kong with Covid 19 as a pretext. There is a rush to shorten and get greater control of supply chains and move to regionalisation after Covid 19. The big three US, China and EU will be in a political and trade battle after Covid 19. The shape of the world, working practices in the developed world etc are all going to be changed by Covid 19. To pretend this has no impact on current UK/EU negotiations and relations is just dumb.
I’m not worried. With true British pluck we shall become self sufficient and grow our own fruit and veg to feed the peasants, sorry citizens and grapes with which to produce our own claret that the toffs so love.

Now, just wait until we round up some fruit and vegetable pickers.

The Brits laugh in the face of ‘supply chains’.
And we will have such lovely crab and langoustines (but maybe no cod n chips).
 
I’m not upset. I just despise stupidity.

It’s obvious Covid 19 has changed things. China is ripping up the international treaty we have with them over Hong Kong with Covid 19 as a pretext. There is a rush to shorten and get greater control of supply chains and move to regionalisation after Covid 19. The big three US, China and EU will be in a political and trade battle after Covid 19. The shape of the world, working practices in the developed world etc are all going to be changed by Covid 19. To pretend this has no impact on current UK/EU negotiations and relations is just dumb.
The part I have bolded identifies where you have been getting the status and power of the EU so wrong on so many occasions for years.

You class the EU as a geopolitical power - on a level with the US and China - is it fuck. Not now - and increasingly the signs are that it never will be.

You appear to have this obsession that the EU is some omnipotent construct / organisation which is actually patently untrue.

It puts me in mind of this article that I read a while ago:

https://www.eurasiareview.com/23052...uropean-commission-crawl-before-you-run-oped/

Have an open-minded and objective read and it may put you on a path to realisation of just how much you over-state the EU's power in the here and now of 2020.

It might help others to realise just what the EU's ambitions are and explain their strategies, plans and actions - hence we are better the fuck out.
 
Debate on the EU recovery package...

The president (UVL) clarified though that this is an exceptional, temporary operation, not the genesis of a future EU treasury.’ @elmundo

Spoiler. It will be.
Absolutely spot on - and you could have added acknowledgement that:
  • Thank fuck that the UK are getting out - just in time and
  • Fuck - therefore we must not get embroiled in extensions beyond December
 
The part I have bolded identifies where you have been getting the status and power of the EU so wrong on so many occasions for years.

You class the EU as a geopolitical power - on a level with the US and China - is it fuck. Not now - and increasingly the signs are that it never will be.

You appear to have this obsession that the EU is some omnipotent construct / organisation which is actually patently untrue.

It puts me in mind of this article that I read a while ago:

https://www.eurasiareview.com/23052...uropean-commission-crawl-before-you-run-oped/

Have an open-minded and objective read and it may put you on a path to realisation of just how much you over-state the EU's power in the here and now of 2020.

It might help others to realise just what the EU's ambitions are and explain their strategies, plans and actions - hence we are better the fuck out.

The EU is not a major geo political power. The EU is a major trade power and more successful at getting other countries to adopt EU standards and regulations than either US or China.

That you are unable to grasp this self evident fact is not my problem but does explain a lot of the nonsense you post.
 
You are just starting to sound a bit 'butt hurt' mate - I can understand your frustration and have a level of sympathy - just why does the head of the UK negotiating team not just do what Barnier wants??

IMO - Frost is clearly spot on to state:

‘Covid19 has not made any changes in priorities in Brexit negotiations. "I don't think it's changed anything," says UK chief negotiator David Frost’

Why would it have done? It is a terrible pandemic and causing major distractions - but the UK priorities of the Brexit negotiations have become (at last) to see the UK leave the EU as an independent nation and free of EU controls and regulations.

Why would that priority have changed. OK - CV-19 could cause issues of logistics and timetable but not in the priority of intended outcomes.​

Therefore you are clearly wrong to state: " Well of course it’s changed things you fucking dick."

As I say - it makes you just sound a bit butt-hurt

Also Frost saying:

""We are still at a relatively early stage of negotiations" - UK's chief Brexit negotiator David Frost tells select committee. Just weeks before crunch decision must be made on fisheries and transition extension following high level stocktake."

Is a simple statement of fact - the negotiations are not making progress towards an agreement - we remain anchored in the early stages. The fact that we are only weeks away from a key milestone is also factual - but does not detract from the accuracy of his statement.

So your response of "Yeah, because everyone has been focused on the pandemic and current European focus is putting together a European Recovery Plan. That will be the pandemic that ‘hasn’t changed anything’. Moron"
is just more petulance born out of being butt-hurt it seems.

Congratulations to Frost would seem to be in order - what a difference there is in the dynamics from only 6 months ago. All the signs are now that the 'monkey is on the EU shoulder'. The EU is from where all the anxiety is emanating from with regard an extension being needed - the UK are sounding quite calm and sanguine.

Everyone knows that the EU like to have the high-ground and bully the other party in negotiations - it is seeming to be quite stressful for Barnier and he is coming across as increasingly rattled.

They just want an extension which can lead to another extension..... and they are perplexed that we are not playing our assigned role.

The exam question and statement from the UK to the EU at this time should be - "....can you, between now and the end of June, provide sufficient certainty and assurance that if we continue with negotiations beyond that point you will concede to the UK positions on LPF and other key areas identified?

If not, we will end the negotiations at the end of June and use the remaining months to prepare for no-deal. If so- we will continue the dialogue beyond June to put meat on the bones of sector agreements."

Simples really when you stop obsessing that the UK has some sort of duty to cave into the EU

I will resist the temptation to remind you that...…...

You state

‘Why would that priority have changed. OK - CV-19 could cause issues of logistics and timetable but not in the priority of intended outcomes’.

No shit Sherlock.

Conclusion. Frost is being a dick and talking out of his arse.
 
Absolutely spot on - and you could have added acknowledgement that:
  • Thank fuck that the UK are getting out - just in time and
  • Fuck - therefore we must not get embroiled in extensions beyond December

Any extension would be separate to the recovery package and the UK would not be part of it. We neither receive benefit or incur further liabilities during transition.
 
You state

‘Why would that priority have changed. OK - CV-19 could cause issues of logistics and timetable but not in the priority of intended outcomes’.

No shit Sherlock.

Conclusion. Frost is being a dick and talking out of his arse.
Nope - that would be those that cannot differentiate between priority outcomes and the issues of logistics and timetable

If you are one of those that are unable to grasp that self evident fact is not my problem but does explain why you get confused over simple concepts and get all high-handed about the EU

Nonetheless - Frost was clearly correct - and refreshingly so

Thankfully - I think that the penny will start to drop with Barnier and the EU27 leaders
 
Any extension would be separate to the recovery package and the UK would not be part of it. We neither receive benefit or incur further liabilities during transition.
Oh dear

Narrowly correct - but I am seeing that as an absolute whoosh

Anyway - you seem to have gone over to the camp that need to get all bolshie - so best let you get on with finding some salve
 
Not sure this has been posted but worth a read.
Coronavirus: Why Merkel may help fund Europe's recovery plan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-52807748
I see this as a logical flow from the subjects we were discussing recently.

Merkel - thinking of legacy could be read as not wanting the in/explosion to happen on her watch

She is leaving shortly and of course the replacement will have been carefully selected - but, unless the German public are going to accept the writing off of EU debt on an increasingly frequent basis, this is perhaps only putting off events
 
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