George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[Ardwick Green Blue]

Not correct, at least not in this jurisdiction.

Which jurisdiction? I assume you mean Minneapolis and not the UK?

 

[grandsolo]

I don't take it as you screaming mate, rather than trying to inform me.

I have been to the States enough time to see the inequalities, even when it comes to the jobs which are being done by African Americans and Mexicans.

Having grown up through the Moss Side riots also, I know all too well that a riot achieves the square root of zero.

It leaves nothing more behind than further decay and a lack of investment in those communities that already badly need it.

Martin Luther King's own niece was speaking earlier and stating her uncle never would condone such rioting?

I can't even try to understand the frustration of African Americans and I will look up Emmett Till.

Thanks TH. I see your point, but as in nature, sometimes the forest needs to burn so it can grow back stronger

“Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention”- Dr. Martin Luther King

No revolution was achieved through peace

 

[domalino]

Yeah that his presidency over.

And you notice how concerned he is about the shops in Manhattan and Los Angeles being smashed up? And the police station in Minnesota?

He's not worried about the police overreacting, he's not worried about the clashes between protesters, he's worried about the bricks and mortar.

 

[grandsolo]

The best way to honour the memory of George Floyd is to steal a flat screen tv and burn down local businesses. The interviews with black business owners who’ve watched their life’s work go up in flames are heart breaking. I’m sure George would be so proud.

The issue is bigger than any business

 

[domalino]

Having grown up through the Moss Side riots also, I know all too well that a riot achieves the square root of zero.

I think you might need to revisit some history TH.

Stonewall, Strangeways, Brixton, Poll Tax, The Gilet Jaunes, the Boston Tea Party. All achieved meaningful change in the direction the rioters wanted.

It took Detroits long hot summer in 67 for the authorities to publicly acknowledge black people were treated differently for the first time. The Alabama riots in '63 made Kennedy sit down with MLK and start the process towards the 64 Civil rights act.

If you think riots achieve the square root of zero you've not paid attention to many. Some are pointless, many are not.

Edit also re: MLK, his niece is right he would never condone rioting - no one should - but he said pretty clearly they were inevitable unless change happened.

Certain conditions continue to exist in our society, which must be condemned as vigorously as we condemn riots. But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation’s summers of riots are caused by our nation’s winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Social justice and progress are the absolute guarantors of riot prevention

​

 

[Bigga]

You are certainly entitled to say you don't like either, but given that you aren't voting you can't tell others who are how they should be voting.

No.

No, I haven't told anyone how they should vote, at all.

I have merely pointed out that Biden helped the US get to this point and the Dems have forced Biden as the answer.

Is that so difficult to absorb?

 

[grandsolo]

And you notice how concerned he is about the shops in Manhattan and Los Angeles being smashed up? And the police station in Minnesota?

He's not worried about the police overreacting, he's not worried about the clashes between protesters, he's worried about the bricks and mortar.

funny how he says cops need to toughen up......hiding in his bunker. What a bitch. The day he dies, I'm throwing a party. Jelly & Ice cream

 

[grandsolo]

No.

No, I haven't told anyone how they should vote, at all.

I have merely pointed out that Biden helped the US get to this point and the Dems have forced Biden as the answer.

Is that so difficult to absorb?

I'd choose a bag of shit to lead this country before the orange hitler, so yea, let Biden do his thing

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Which jurisdiction? I assume you mean Minneapolis and not the UK?

No, I mean the UK.

 

[pudge]

Are you reading something into my response...?

Come out with it.

Yes; your rather ironic "binary" vision.

Once again for all your bluster there's very little substance in the end. Your proclamations of a grander understanding of everything always reverts to "Biden lovers" on the other side. You're as closed off to things as those you're constantly chastising for allegedly being.

"Hypocrisy thy name is you"

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

No.

No, I haven't told anyone how they should vote, at all.

I have merely pointed out that Biden helped the US get to this point and the Dems have forced Biden as the answer.

Is that so difficult to absorb?

This election was ALWAYS about removing Trump, and Bernie Sanders would not have beaten Trump. Biden might not, but he stands a far better chance than Bernie.

Is that so difficult to absorb?

 

[Ardwick Green Blue]

No, I mean the UK.

As a non-legal observer I have seen lots of cases over the years in which I would have thought that a guilty of murder verdict would be delivered and instead it has been manslaughter. It has always seemed like a very high bar tbh

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

As a non-legal observer I have seen lots of cases over the years in which I would have thought that a guilty of murder verdict would be delivered and instead it has been manslaughter. It has always seemed like a very high bar tbh

The mens rea (mental element) for murder is to intend to kill or cause really serious harm (GBH) resulting in death. I believe this dates back to the 19th century and is there for perfectly acceptable and reasonable public policy reasons. Proving intent to kill is not always straightforward. Manslaughter is more complicated, but at its most simplistic level requires the intent to cause some harm resulting in death - like ABH for example. A good example being a ‘one-punch manslaughter’ outside a pub.

if the George Floyd case was tried here, a jury would be perfectly entitled to conclude thst the officer intended to cause Floyd really serious harm when he put his knee on his neck from 8 minutes. I think a manslaughter verdict would be the most likely though.

 

[Trevor Morley's Tache]

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

Antifa and the black power for example causing alot of aggression.

What are you talking about?

 

[Bigga]

I am referring to some of the protesters as jackasses, because they are jackasses. The fact that they are protesting isn't why I am calling them jackasses though, yet you seem intent on trying to twist it that way, as you usually try and twist things to suit your terrible points.

And no, I haven't seen Bidens enthusiasm poll, because what the fuck is an enthusiasm poll and who the fuck gives a shit about such nonsense? Of course Trumps enthusiasm score is higher, people who support him are zealots ffs. What a ridiculous thing to judge someone on.

You don't vote for someone because they are exciting, you vote for them because they are the best of the available options. Refusing to vote is an act of outright cowardice and people who do it are as complicit in the rise of tyrants as those who vote for them.

The problem with nutters like you is that you want change but are unwilling to actually work for it, do the hard yards and take the massive amount of time it takes to slowly change things. So instead just run around yelling about revolution, wanting society to somehow radically change over night, when that will literally never happen. Pie in the sky bullshit

The hard yards...? What, like this...?

Wait your turn, eh, as there's more important things to deal with.

 

[bluemcr]

What are you talking about?

I'm saying anti facist movement antifa are behind these riots stiring it up

 

[Bigga]

Yes; your rather ironic "binary" vision.

Once again for all your bluster there's very little substance in the end. Your proclamations of a grander understanding of everything always reverts to "Biden lovers" on the other side. You're as closed off to things as those you're constantly chastising for allegedly being.

"Hypocrisy thy name is you"

Neolibs/ Dem supporters, then.

Hope you're happy.

Am I closed off to the neolibs and the GOP looting the taxpayer rather than move them forward as a society?

Yeah, I am.

 

[Bigga]

This election was ALWAYS about removing Trump, and Bernie Sanders would not have beaten Trump. Biden might not, but he stands a far better chance than Bernie.

Is that so difficult to absorb?

I'm sure you've seen the flames in the cities.

Saying Sanders would not have beaten the pres with such stark opposing policies would be you having a laugh.

The US older demographic are scared to move forward as they're brainwashed to think that way forward is communism.

Look at the US streets.

 

[FogBlueInSanFran]

I'm saying anti facist movement antifa are behind these riots stiring it up

Oh. And “The Black Power” also, then? Not familiar with them — who are they?