George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

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I think it’s got out of hand now. I just watched a video of protestors in London provoking police, throwing objects at police horses, then bemoaning an aggressive response.
 
karen7 said:
I am not good with the timing,i have said that many times,this is a test of the government's assertion that being in a mass gatherings outside is a unlikely situation to catch covid i sincerely that is true,also they said that long before people started wearing masks
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Oh right they are following the science then?
 
Tb1981 said:
So black lives don’t matter?
I thought that’s the protest is it really about Dominic Cummings?



No you as a person (whatever colour) can say whatever you like
It’s called free speech
And you choose not to say that they are wrong
Like the media everyone seems scared to denounce this for what it is.
It is irresponsible and it’s not racist to say that!
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Really you need to stop trying to make this out to be my political leaning or whatever you said yesterday,i am using my free speech as are everyone who disagree with me
 
karen7 said:
Really you need to stop trying to make this out to be my political leaning or whatever you said yesterday,i am using my free speech as are everyone who disagree with me
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Do you think they are irresponsible to gather in huge crowds during a pandemic and not adhere to social distancing rules?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I do wonder if the angst over statues like Colston, Rhodes, Churchill (I'm sure there are many more) says more about us as a society than those individuals. While it's great that we are evolving a bit, removing these statues does smell a bit of whitewashing our history / consciences. It's almost an easy way out to destroy them and deny our history rather than deal with our guilt. A more recent example is probably Arthur 'Bomber' Harris who did the ethical dirty work of bombing German civilians during WW2, but was then scapegoated and held at arms length.
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The thing is, without Winston Churchill the UK would now be a Nazi client state now as would all of non German Europe which is why I find it rather bizare as to all the abuse he gets from the left.
 
BlueAnorak said:
The thing is, without Winston Churchill the UK would now be a Nazi client state now as would all of non German Europe which is why I find it rather bizare as to all the abuse he gets from the left.
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Absolutely. I think we expect a lot of our historical figures. Like the rest of us they are flawed humans.
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I do wonder if the angst over statues like Colston, Rhodes, Churchill (I'm sure there are many more) says more about us as a society than those individuals. While it's great that we are evolving a bit, removing these statues does smell a bit of whitewashing our history / consciences. It's almost an easy way out to destroy them and deny our history rather than deal with our guilt. A more recent example is probably Arthur 'Bomber' Harris who did the ethical dirty work of bombing German civilians during WW2, but was then scapegoated and held at arms length.
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I don’t disagree.

I would say that having one of someone who did so much wrong in the middle of a town centre isn’t the best but generally speaking I’m against removing them.

The Bomber Harris point is a really good one, he was scapegoated when the entire government supported it too, despite Churchill being hesitant.
 
ganganvince said:
Oh right they are following the science then?
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I don't believe they have been following the science anywhere near as closely as they said,herd immunity was the plan at the start,whitty explicitly said that going to a football game was very low risk and they say now transmission is almost all in households,hospitals and care homes ,i am not too convinced that they will be that concerned about the protesting especially as most i saw were wearing masks

To be clear i am not saying that there will not be some dire consequences from these demonstrations,i am interested to see if what the gov thinks is true or not
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I do wonder if the angst over statues like Colston, Rhodes, Churchill (I'm sure there are many more) says more about us as a society than those individuals. While it's great that we are evolving a bit, removing these statues does smell a bit of whitewashing our history / consciences. It's almost an easy way out to destroy them and deny our history rather than deal with our guilt. A more recent example is probably Arthur 'Bomber' Harris who did the ethical dirty work of bombing German civilians during WW2, but was then scapegoated and held at arms length.
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I think you mean unethical.
 
karen7 said:
They know the risks of covid to their community,ask yourself why they took the risk ,maybe it is a tipping point in history in relation to the racism they get since they were born,that is why I try and understand why they are out demonstrating , as a white person i can't tell them they are wrong to use this moment in time to try and force change ,that has been my only point all along
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Karen, you are contradicting yourself. An apologist for those protesting. It really doesn’t matter whether it’s a tipping point, now is not the time.

These riots (protests, lol) are not ‘excused’ during a pandemic.

I’m getting really, really tired of people jumping in defending this yet slating Cummings.

Both are wrong, but fuck me it is double standard if ever I’ve seen it.

And not to stoke the fire, but Floyds killing imo was not racially motivated.
 
Ban-jani said:
I’d make it compulsory to open up opportunities to everyone but the problem with making it compulsory is if people from a certain background don’t want that job, then the organisation is punished for something that’s out of their control.

I’m not saying that’s why there aren’t more black cops or black people in certain roles at all, it’s just a problem that may occur in other areas if we go down that road of policy.

I’m in total agreement with you that diversity that reflects the population is a good thing at all levels, for everyone.

For the record I think more BAME cops in certain communities would be absolutely huge for those communities.

If you’ve got a south London, gang riddled area and you manage to recruit young black lads into the police force and away from the gangs, you’ll change the whole situation.
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Most people are in positions not for the job itself, but to learn the position. From there they can get to 'love/ like' the job. I still think compulsory positions would help demote unconscious bias until hiring people as people kicks in.

I agree with you on BAME influence in BAME communities, but I also think that won't solve it. If that's the idea going forward then White officers will never allow themselves/ be allowed to solve community situations. It's a hand-in-hand situation.
 
karen7 said:
Stupid but I understand why they are doing it,this is their lives they want to change
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Do you agree now isn’t the right time? At least concede that.

I can understand why there are protests. But I can differentiate between that and when it needs to happen.

Im not about to start apologising for them.

What is happening is fucking bang out of order. Just like it was with Cummings.
 
Ban-jani said:
Thank you.

Yeah I totally agree. I actually got annoyed when one client’s HR put in a policy to remove names from CVs, to stop any bias, as in my head I’d call anyone for a job, even if I couldn’t pronounce their name, as you’d expect me to do as a recruiter.

But then we have seen with the odd manager picking only English sounding names of candidates that there is still some issue, with the odd brain dead idiot.
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I don't actually disagree with the 'no name' policy. Even if YOU, particularly, aren't such, one would still have to deal with the other clowns that have unconscious bias, so everybody has to adhere to the programme.

Picking a client and practising a revealed name afterwards, shouldn't be a big deal.

That system actually gives me hope.
 
Bigga said:
Most people are in positions not for the job itself, but to learn the position. From there they can get to 'love/ like' the job. I still think compulsory positions would help demote unconscious bias until hiring people as people kicks in.

I agree with you on BAME influence in BAME communities, but I also think that won't solve it. If that's the idea going forward then White officers will never allow themselves/ be allowed to solve community situations. It's a hand-in-hand situation.
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Well yeah they have a vague idea of the new job matching what they really want and they realise after some time if it does or doesn’t.

We’ll have to agree to disagree in the compulsory part but we both agree the end goal of institutions and organisations reflecting society.

Yeah I don’t think exclusively having black people police black communities, it should be mixed but having some who grew up in that neighbour, return to police it, will make a positive difference.

In your view, how do you compare us to the States?
 
Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese said:
I do wonder if the angst over statues like Colston, Rhodes, Churchill (I'm sure there are many more) says more about us as a society than those individuals. While it's great that we are evolving a bit, removing these statues does smell a bit of whitewashing our history / consciences. It's almost an easy way out to destroy them and deny our history rather than deal with our guilt. A more recent example is probably Arthur 'Bomber' Harris who did the ethical dirty work of bombing German civilians during WW2, but was then scapegoated and held at arms length.
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Would these statues not benefit from being museum pieces? They are reminders, good and bad, of the past, not a promotion of the future.
 
Bigga said:
I don't actually disagree with the 'no name' policy. Even if YOU, particularly, aren't such, one would still have to deal with the other clowns that have unconscious bias, so everybody has to adhere to the programme.

Picking a client and practising a revealed name afterwards, shouldn't be a big deal.

That system actually gives me hope.
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I agree now, I didn’t at the time.

It really is a fair way.

I think you’d be surprised at what goes into HR and recruitment now, the landscape is different from even a decade ago.

I don’t agree that unconscious bias is a thing, it’s very conscious when people do this sort of thing, in my opinion.
 
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