George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Smart arse ;-)

Maybe I should have said Sumer but even I can spell that

Nobody likes a smart arse.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

2. The people campaigning against the statues aren't doing it on the principle that slavery is evil, they're doing it on the principle that slavery against black people is evil. So it's not 1 rule for all statues, which undermines the arguments about equality.

Their arguments are statuist.

 

[purplenose]

I have, but your statement lacks all sense of proportionality and reason and therefore undermines the point you are seeking to advance.

What about people who have already caught the virus - are their lives at risk?
What about people who live in Shetland and are isolating - are their lives at risk?
What about the large number of people who catch the virus and are asymptomatic - are their lives at risk?


The whole population ffs. Get a fucking grip.

Yes other than those who have had it and therefore may be immune the whole population is at risk of catching it, the whole population probably won't get it but are at risk of getting it. More so when 1000s of people decide to take no notice of lock down and little of social distancing.

If you think that people will not die of this virus as a direct result of the protests on the weekend I can only suggest its you that needs to get a grip, if you think that is justified then more so, or do you think they are just an unfortunate sacrifice needed to have been made in the interests of justice?

 

[MillionMilesAway]

Smart arse ;-)

Maybe I should have said Sumer but even I can spell that

Season before Autun.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Yes other than those who have had it and therefore may be immune the whole population is at risk of catching it, the whole population probably won't get it but are at risk of getting it. More so when 1000s of people decide to take no notice of lock down and little of social distancing.

If you think that people will not die of this virus as a direct result of the protests on the weekend I can only suggest its you that needs to get a grip, if you think that is justified then more so, or do you think they are just an unfortunate sacrifice needed to have been made in the interests of justice?

I was due to travel north today to visit my son, but since discovering that my life (as well as the entire population of the United Kingdom - and possibly the world) has been put at risk by this egregious act of vandalism I think I might stay at home for the next twelve months, possibly longer depending on what other statues are destroyed.

 

[Deleted member 77198]

Whilst there seems to be an appetite for having white people beg for forgiveness over things that happened 100s of years ago, none of which had the slightest thing to do with any white person living today. I wonder why there is no thought of perhaps calling out black people for the kinds of things that happened for example in Rwanda 800k lives should have mattered, as should the continuance of similar things going on to this day in the likes of Nigeria, DR Congo and others.

No mention of the years of carnage in Somalia, the slaughter of any colour of person who should come across Boko Haram.

One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk.

Where were all these people in Kigali? Why are they not in places such the the Central African Republic, Chad, Mali, Libya. Why are they not in Mogadishu, Eritrea, or even Haiti if Africa is not your bag.

Every day much worse things happen to people in those countries, and its not red neck Yank coppers doing things, but of course its much safer bullying a few coppers ordered not to fight back or for those slightly less brave chucking the odd statue in a river. Before heading of to mix with their families of all ages.

Here is a fact there will be more bame people die as a result of these protests than that shithouse cop in the states killed, there will also be white people die not due to his actions but due to the actions of those claiming to represent a movement claiming lives matter. Sorry I dont believe any lives matter to these people black or otherwise.

I support any genuine efforts to bring people together and stop hatred, but I will not be taking a knee or apologising for stuff from centuries ago or things that happened in the states 2 weeks ago, yes I am white but none of it was anything to do with me.

I don’t think any British women link modern day Norwegian men to the Norse Vikings who took British women as slaves so that they could copulate (most likely through rape) with them and reproduce in their new nation on Iceland when they had no women and needed children.

Nor do we in the North of England today link modern day people in Normandy in France (or Scandinavians who were actually the Normans) to the genocide of the people in Northern England in the Harrying of the North.

But I also never see it mentioned about how black South Africans treat what we call mixed race South Africans (the black South Africans call them “coloureds”, disown them from their families and segregate them in their own neighbourhoods); the genocide of black Africans who happen not to be Islamic by Islamic black Africans in Darfur; the ethnic war in Angola with one ethnicity of black people being slaughtered because they aren’t the same black ethnicity as the main population; the treatment of black people by Arabic people in Yemen; the murdering of black Melanesians in West Papua by Indonesians; as well as the ones you’ve mentioned... and the African empires’ roles in the slave trade to the Europeans and Asians...

Because this movement is an American one, with America famed for being unaware of the wider world outside their country, pointing out white atrocities against black people [which are absolutely terrible, not downplaying that!] but then because the rest of the world always follows America it just follows that same path. There only seems to be a linking of modern whites to the past and present or a shaming of white people into feeling guilt for their past and present, and everyone else’s past and present on the exact same issue is overlooked or ignored.

 

[daztrueblue91]

I think it’s wrong to characterise our role in slavery as being an entirely malign one, as your post appears to be suggesting. In relative terms, during the 19th century, our deeds and actions were broadly positive and proactive.

I do think as a society we are losing the ability to view the nuances of our history. It appears everything has to be good or bad and there is no middle ground.

Historical perspectives constantly change as well. Traditionally, we have seen things from the eyes of the oppressors. Hence why a large part of the history curriculum focuses on religion and monarchy.

However, with the BLM campaign, perspectives are now being viewed from the oppressed. That is ultimately going to present a more unfavourable picture of British history. It’s something I believe that as a nation, we should not shy away from.

That said, a lot of British actions were also aligned with many of the other major nations of the time. Not that it justifies the cause, but it adds context to that episode of history.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Did i see this posted in here?

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

Did i see this posted in here?

I fancy the arse off her.

 

[AlexWilliamsGloves]

Whilst there seems to be an appetite for having white people beg for forgiveness over things that happened 100s of years ago, none of which had the slightest thing to do with any white person living today. I wonder why there is no thought of perhaps calling out black people for the kinds of things that happened for example in Rwanda 800k lives should have mattered, as should the continuance of similar things going on to this day in the likes of Nigeria, DR Congo and others.

No mention of the years of carnage in Somalia, the slaughter of any colour of person who should come across Boko Haram.

One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk.

Where were all these people in Kigali? Why are they not in places such the the Central African Republic, Chad, Mali, Libya. Why are they not in Mogadishu, Eritrea, or even Haiti if Africa is not your bag.

Every day much worse things happen to people in those countries, and its not red neck Yank coppers doing things, but of course its much safer bullying a few coppers ordered not to fight back or for those slightly less brave chucking the odd statue in a river. Before heading of to mix with their families of all ages.

Here is a fact there will be more bame people die as a result of these protests than that shithouse cop in the states killed, there will also be white people die not due to his actions but due to the actions of those claiming to represent a movement claiming lives matter. Sorry I dont believe any lives matter to these people black or otherwise.

I support any genuine efforts to bring people together and stop hatred, but I will not be taking a knee or apologising for stuff from centuries ago or things that happened in the states 2 weeks ago, yes I am white but none of it was anything to do with me.

i kinda reluctantly agree with this...makes sense.

Maybe we can stop all the "Lest We Forget" flag wavers too...banging on about wars "we won"...but had absolutely nothing to do with?

 

[bluemcr]

I don’t think any British women link modern day Norwegian men to the Norse Vikings who took British women as slaves so that they could copulate (most likely through rape) with them and reproduce in their new nation on Iceland when they had no women and needed children.

Nor do we in the North of England today link modern day people in Normandy in France (or Scandinavians who were actually the Normans) to the genocide of the people in Northern England in the Harrying of the North.

But I also never see it mentioned about how black South Africans treat what we call mixed race South Africans (the black South Africans call them “coloureds”, disown them from their families and segregate them in their own neighbourhoods); the genocide of black Africans who happen not to be Islamic by Islamic black Africans in Darfur; the ethnic war in Angola with one ethnicity of black people being slaughtered because they aren’t the same black ethnicity as the main population; the treatment of black people by Arabic people in Yemen; the murdering of black Melanesians in West Papua by Indonesians; as well as the ones you’ve mentioned... and the African empires’ roles in the slave trade to the Europeans and Asians...

Because this movement is an American one, with America famed for being unaware of the wider world outside their country, pointing out white atrocities against black people [which are absolutely terrible, not downplaying that!] but then because the rest of the world always follows America it just follows that same path. There only seems to be a linking of modern whites to the past or a shaming of white people into feeling guilt for their past, and everyone else’s past and present on the exact same issue is overlooked or ignored.

Or 900 Christians killed by fulani herdsmen in Nigeria the past 3 months.

 

[purplenose]

I do think as a society we are losing the ability to view the nuances of our history. It appears everything has to be good or bad and there is no middle ground.

Historical perspectives constantly change as well. Traditionally, we have seen things from the eyes of the oppressors. Hence why a large part of the history curriculum focuses on religion and monarchy.

However, with the BLM campaign, perspectives are now being viewed from the oppressed. That is ultimately going to present a more unfavourable picture of British history. It’s something I believe that as a nation, we should not shy away from.

That said, a lot of British actions were also aligned with many of the other major nations of the time. Not that it justifies the cause, but it adds context to that episode of history.

As a matter of interest could you tell me any countries across the globe who have not got a history that in the modern day may be viewed with a little thought of "fuck thats not good"?. There might be one or two angelic nations but I cant off the top of my head think of any.

 

[mcfc1632]

It’s getting fucking ridiculous now, they will start burning certain books soon and we all nowhere that leads.
We will get to the stage we’re police won’t do anything for fear of been called racist or upsetting communities, oh wait that’s already happened hasn’t it.

Apparently, there is a list 60 statues identified (to start with) to be pulled down by the mob(s).

A lot of what you read and hear is simply blatant virtue signalling that detracts from a serious subject

 

[purplenose]

i kinda reluctantly agree with this...makes sense.

Maybe we can stop all the "Lest We Forget" flag wavers too...banging on about wars "we won"...but had absolutely nothing to do with?

History is exactly that history, what happened in the past, and lessons should and are learned, if not we would yet to have invented the wheel (yes I know they have'nt in Stoke or Burnley).

I have no issues with people trying to change stuff that is unfair and relevent to todays goings on but to do so at the time and in the manner that we are seeing I am afraid I have to condemn it out of hand. I do not see how risking even a single life can possibly be justified on the back of what happened on the other side of the Atlantic.

There will come a time soon where it is safe to go out and have protests and at that time that is exactly what should be done, I will most likely go on one myself.

 

[daztrueblue91]

As a matter of interest could you tell me any countries across the globe who have not got a history that in the modern day may be viewed with a little thought of "fuck thats not good"?. There might be one or two angelic nations but I cant off the top of my head think of any.

Every country has its own dark episodes of history. I think the scale of the British Empire and it’s involvement in so many countries puts it at the forefront of so many historical issues.

The blame culture we also live in makes it easier for people to have a bad guy and a good guy on these issues.

 

[mcfc1632]

Whilst there seems to be an appetite for having white people beg for forgiveness over things that happened 100s of years ago, none of which had the slightest thing to do with any white person living today. I wonder why there is no thought of perhaps calling out black people for the kinds of things that happened for example in Rwanda 800k lives should have mattered, as should the continuance of similar things going on to this day in the likes of Nigeria, DR Congo and others.

No mention of the years of carnage in Somalia, the slaughter of any colour of person who should come across Boko Haram.

One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk.

Where were all these people in Kigali? Why are they not in places such the the Central African Republic, Chad, Mali, Libya. Why are they not in Mogadishu, Eritrea, or even Haiti if Africa is not your bag.

Every day much worse things happen to people in those countries, and its not red neck Yank coppers doing things, but of course its much safer bullying a few coppers ordered not to fight back or for those slightly less brave chucking the odd statue in a river. Before heading of to mix with their families of all ages.

Here is a fact there will be more bame people die as a result of these protests than that shithouse cop in the states killed, there will also be white people die not due to his actions but due to the actions of those claiming to represent a movement claiming lives matter. Sorry I dont believe any lives matter to these people black or otherwise.

I support any genuine efforts to bring people together and stop hatred, but I will not be taking a knee or apologising for stuff from centuries ago or things that happened in the states 2 weeks ago, yes I am white but none of it was anything to do with me.

I agree with all of that except:

"...One terrible murder thousands of miles from this country and the whole population of our country have their lives put at risk. .."

It is instead a good number of deeply caring people were joined by a bunch of selfish virtue signallers and anarchist fuckers to put the lives millions of people across our country at risk

You see people suggesting that some are more concerned about statues than people which is surely simply missing the (very obvious) points that people are making

 

[urban genie]

Season before Autun.

No ancient civilization

 

[Nellies left peg]

What did the Romans ever do for us. We should sue Italy for the distress and knock-down Bath

 

[MillionMilesAway]

No ancient civilization

Oh, that makes more sense.
Not been to Sumer, but have stood in the Euphrates in northern Syria.

 

[BobKowalski]

I think there's two points to that line of argument:

1. There seems to be a historical revisionism that slavery only ever affected black people, was perpetrated by white people, and that
Britain's role was uniquely horrible. Much in the same way that some believe the British Empire was all nice and rosy: it's historical nonsense and that's why people are pointing out that it was practiced by every empire known to man.

2. The people campaigning against the statues aren't doing it on the principle that slavery is evil, they're doing it on the principle that slavery against black people is evil. So it's not 1 rule for all statues, which undermines the arguments about equality.

No.

1.We are talking about slavery of black people because it is relevant to events happening today and in the wider context of racism within the society in which we happen to live. You, and others, appear to be arguing that in order to discuss one specific aspect of slavery, the Atlantic Slave Trade, we must first a) acknowledge all slavery is bad, b) has been going on for thousands of years and c) others were at it as well and were a lot worse than us. In effect you are telling black people, and others, that there are pre conditions that must be met before we discuss their specific situation.

If I discuss a specific crime, say a murder, I am allowed to do so. I do not have to first a) acknowledge all murder is bad, b) has been going on for thousands of years and c) that there are much worse murders.

2. This is symptomatic of what I am saying. The hurdles that must be jumped in order for people’s protests to be ‘legitimate’. They are accused of not campaigning against slavery ‘per se’ but only how it impacted on their community. As if somehow that reduces the validity of their claims and therefore can be dismissed. They are being selfish, as if every other fucker is going around virtuously campaigning against the evils of slavery. Are you? Did I miss the big meet up?

All this fannying around, ‘yes, but, no, but what about the pyramids’ is fucking tedious.