Another new Brexit thread

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Churchlawtonblue said:
Definitely blinking. Just hold your nerve uk negotiators.
Click to expand...
No idea what you two have been reading. One of the aspects of this is that Barnier has to report to EU member states and EU committees, but Frost only reports to Cummings-Johnson so you only hear what they choose you hear.

Sun and Express identikit headlines? Common source but neither suggests any "blinking".
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ier-trade-talks-latest-Brexit-deal-update/amp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11815447/michel-barnier-rejects-uk-trade-demand-terms-japan/amp/

EESC meeting on Wednesday?

Barnier, who revealed that a total of 400 UK and EU negotiators are involved in the talks, said, “Sometimes I hear people in the UK public debate say that the EU has unreasonable positions. But they are only unreasonable for those who refuse to accept that Brexit has negative consequences for the UK. They are only unreasonable if your starting point is that the EU should not have the sovereign power to define its own conditions for giving generous access to its own market. The EU stance is to protect our interests, to protect our greatest achievement and to limit the economic damage that Brexit inflicts on EU businesses and consumers.”

He even gets specific about benefits we've achieved as members and - some might call this punishment - why the EU doesn't need to help us maintain those benefits.

“During its 47 years of membership, the UK built up a strong position in the EU market in a number of strategic areas: financial services, business and legal services, and also as a regulation and certification hub and a major entry point in the EU single market.

“In great part, this was made possible by the fact that the UK was an EU Member State, within the single market. As it prepares to leave the single market and customs union, we must ask ourselves whether it is really in the EU interest for the UK to retain such a prominent position?

“We cannot allow, and we will not allow, this cherry picking. The UK chose to become a third country and it cannot have the best of both worlds. This is simply not in the overall long-term political and economic interest of the EU.

“Do we really want to consolidate the UK’s position as a certification hub for the EU, knowing that it already controls some 15-20 percent of the EU certification market?

“Do we really want to take a risk with rules of origin that would allow the UK to become a manufacturing hub for the EU, by allowing it to assemble materials and goods sourced all over the world, and export them to the single market as British goods, tariff and quota-free?

“Do we really want the UK to remain a centre for commercial litigation for the EU, when we could attract these services here?”

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.e...ompromise’-break-current-brexit-talks-impasse
 
BlueAnorak said:
No shidt. This has been Government policy for yonks. Glad you're catching up.
Fruit, veg and grain will attract virtually zero tariffs but animal / meat tariffs will be high.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...imports-cut-to-zero-in-temporary-no-deal-plan
Click to expand...
Could you be confusing the new tariffs we will be applying with our inability to check whether goods have been correctly declared?

I'm not sure where that 87% zero tariffs figure came from. Was that to fool Tory MPs last year? The new list of global tariffs from 1st January has a lot of "liberalised" tariffs (most chemicals from 5.5% to 5% though deuterium will be 0%) but reducing tariffs on mosses and lichens from 2.5% to zero is not my idea of a Brexit boost.

10% on cars is unchanged - but will now apply to cars from the EU as well. Half our imports come tariff-free from the EU so nearly everything that currently carries a tariff if from outside the EU will carry a tariff from the EU. It's that awful reality of doubling the amount of goods to check that means there's a U-turn to a smugglers charter policy.

Here was the policy that no longer is:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...e-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report
 
BlueAnorak said:
No shidt. This has been Government policy for yonks. Glad you're catching up.
Fruit, veg and grain will attract virtually zero tariffs but animal / meat tariffs will be high.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...imports-cut-to-zero-in-temporary-no-deal-plan
Click to expand...
Tbh hes pretty slow on these things, that combined with the fact that hes also so desparate to put a negative spin on everything he doesnt actually realise something positive when he sees it. Its sad really that the likes of him and his ilk on here are so desparate for the UK to flounder over brexit.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Tbh hes pretty slow on these things, that combined with the fact that hes also so desparate to put a negative spin on everything he doesnt actually realise something positive when he sees it. Its sad really that the likes of him and his ilk on here are so desparate for the UK to flounder over brexit.
Click to expand...
Sad - but not surprising

For some it is like they have too much personal investment in the debate and this means now that the best interests of the UK are a long way down the priority list and well behind them being seen to be right on a football forum

Been like that for a long time - they trawl the media outlets daily hoping for bad news that they can report and - if none is to be found - they often make do with any news that they can misrepresent

They have been in that mindset for years now
 
Vic said:
Could you be confusing the new tariffs we will be applying with our inability to check whether goods have been correctly declared?

I'm not sure where that 87% zero tariffs figure came from. Was that to fool Tory MPs last year? The new list of global tariffs from 1st January has a lot of "liberalised" tariffs (most chemicals from 5.5% to 5% though deuterium will be 0%) but reducing tariffs on mosses and lichens from 2.5% to zero is not my idea of a Brexit boost.

10% on cars is unchanged - but will now apply to cars from the EU as well. Half our imports come tariff-free from the EU so nearly everything that currently carries a tariff if from outside the EU will carry a tariff from the EU. It's that awful reality of doubling the amount of goods to check that means there's a U-turn to a smugglers charter policy.

Here was the policy that no longer is:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...e-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report
Click to expand...
I presume that if we don’t have the infrastructure and capability to check EU imports to apply tariffs following a No Deal outcome, we will inadvertently breach MFN rules by effectively allowing EU imports tariff free which would allow any other country to take us to the WTO where we would be forced to allow tariff free imports of that commodity from everyone else as well.
And still the Brexit bullshitters think we’ve got the EU over a barrel and we only need to hold our nerve. Bottom line is we’re going to be screwed without a deal and they’ll just suffer some inconvenience that they’ll get over.
 
BlueAnorak said:
No shidt. This has been Government policy for yonks. Glad you're catching up.
Fruit, veg and grain will attract virtually zero tariffs but animal / meat tariffs will be high.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...imports-cut-to-zero-in-temporary-no-deal-plan
Click to expand...

You are quoting an article from March 2019 about a ‘temporary’ plan on tariffs to critique an article in the FT about the abandonment of a policy of full customs checks at UK borders which was announced earlier this year?

I mean where do I start? Do I go with you have maxed out on stupid with this one? There are primordial soups that display more intelligence then your post? If I combined you with the rest of the Brexit Brains Trust it would generate less brain power than a potato powered toy car. If you plugged the Brexit Brains Trust into the Matrix it would crash the fucking system.

You get the drift...
 
Vic said:
Could you be confusing the new tariffs we will be applying with our inability to check whether goods have been correctly declared?

I'm not sure where that 87% zero tariffs figure came from. Was that to fool Tory MPs last year? The new list of global tariffs from 1st January has a lot of "liberalised" tariffs (most chemicals from 5.5% to 5% though deuterium will be 0%) but reducing tariffs on mosses and lichens from 2.5% to zero is not my idea of a Brexit boost.

10% on cars is unchanged - but will now apply to cars from the EU as well. Half our imports come tariff-free from the EU so nearly everything that currently carries a tariff if from outside the EU will carry a tariff from the EU. It's that awful reality of doubling the amount of goods to check that means there's a U-turn to a smugglers charter policy.

Here was the policy that no longer is:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...e-full-customs-checks-on-goods-from-eu-report
Click to expand...
BobKowalski said:
You are quoting an article from March 2019 about a ‘temporary’ plan on tariffs to critique an article in the FT about the abandonment of a policy of full customs checks at UK borders which was announced earlier this year?
I mean where do I start? Do I go with you have maxed out on stupid with this one? There are primordial soups that display more intelligence then your post? If I combined you with the rest of the Brexit Brains Trust it would generate less brain power than a potato powered toy car. If you plugged the Brexit Brains Trust into the Matrix it would crash the fucking system.
You get the drift...
Click to expand...

Your confusing failure with not putting in place infrasture to inspect goods and collect tariffs till it is absolutely necessary. No suprise of course as you just see what you want to see.
It seems to have passed you by that, for the most part, inspection is low priority as everything would pass inspection anyway with both markets initially working to the same rules!
 
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Vic said:
No idea what you two have been reading. One of the aspects of this is that Barnier has to report to EU member states and EU committees, but Frost only reports to Cummings-Johnson so you only hear what they choose you hear.

Sun and Express identikit headlines? Common source but neither suggests any "blinking".
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...ier-trade-talks-latest-Brexit-deal-update/amp

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11815447/michel-barnier-rejects-uk-trade-demand-terms-japan/amp/

EESC meeting on Wednesday?

Barnier, who revealed that a total of 400 UK and EU negotiators are involved in the talks, said, “Sometimes I hear people in the UK public debate say that the EU has unreasonable positions. But they are only unreasonable for those who refuse to accept that Brexit has negative consequences for the UK. They are only unreasonable if your starting point is that the EU should not have the sovereign power to define its own conditions for giving generous access to its own market. The EU stance is to protect our interests, to protect our greatest achievement and to limit the economic damage that Brexit inflicts on EU businesses and consumers.”

He even gets specific about benefits we've achieved as members and - some might call this punishment - why the EU doesn't need to help us maintain those benefits.

“During its 47 years of membership, the UK built up a strong position in the EU market in a number of strategic areas: financial services, business and legal services, and also as a regulation and certification hub and a major entry point in the EU single market.

“In great part, this was made possible by the fact that the UK was an EU Member State, within the single market. As it prepares to leave the single market and customs union, we must ask ourselves whether it is really in the EU interest for the UK to retain such a prominent position?

“We cannot allow, and we will not allow, this cherry picking. The UK chose to become a third country and it cannot have the best of both worlds. This is simply not in the overall long-term political and economic interest of the EU.

“Do we really want to consolidate the UK’s position as a certification hub for the EU, knowing that it already controls some 15-20 percent of the EU certification market?

“Do we really want to take a risk with rules of origin that would allow the UK to become a manufacturing hub for the EU, by allowing it to assemble materials and goods sourced all over the world, and export them to the single market as British goods, tariff and quota-free?

“Do we really want the UK to remain a centre for commercial litigation for the EU, when we could attract these services here?”

https://www.theparliamentmagazine.e...ompromise’-break-current-brexit-talks-impasse
Click to expand...

Barnier continually going public with statements like that is definitely blinking. Why would you say a thing if you were not worried about how the negotiations were going. You wouldnt. You just keep quiet and sit contentedly in the knowledge that you had what you wanted. The EU is up **** creek with out a paddle financially. Italy and Spain were in a terrible place before the virus now they expect to be bailed out and the arguments within have already started over who foots the bill. This can only strengthen our negotiation position.
 
mcfc1632 said:
Sad - but not surprising

For some it is like they have too much personal investment in the debate and this means now that the best interests of the UK are a long way down the priority list and well behind them being seen to be right on a football forum

Been like that for a long time - they trawl the media outlets daily hoping for bad news that they can report and - if none is to be found - they often make do with any news that they can misrepresent

They have been in that mindset for years now
Click to expand...
Whereas you're all competing to be wrong on a football forum. And of course you've never trawled for news of EU disunity (or conversely too much unity).

The best interests of the UK would be in caving in so that as little changes as possible. It's not us wanting the damage. And don't give us the "democracy" stuff - we've left.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Barnier continually going public with statements like that is definitely blinking. Why would you say a thing if you were not worried about how the negotiations were going. You wouldnt. You just keep quiet and sit contentedly in the knowledge that you had what you wanted. The EU is up **** creek with out a paddle financially. Italy and Spain were in a terrible place before the virus now they expect to be bailed out and the arguments within have already started over who foots the bill. This can only strengthen our negotiation position.
Click to expand...
So why isn't the UK side keeping quiet?

Random Google:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.da...ns-No-Deal-vital-talks-fail-15-days-time.html
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Definitely blinking. Just hold your nerve uk negotiators.
Click to expand...
I started to feel a bit sorry for some of the 'arch-Remainers'

They have succeeded in turning the thread into a largely personal echo chamber where they can big each other up and slag off Leavers in their absence. I notice that they also continue the deceit of ascribing to Leavers opinions and views that I have not seen any Leaver make - one of the latest ones is that we Leavers feel that we 'have the EU over a barrel'.

I have never said that - Did you ever say that? Do you remember any leaver ever saying that?

No - just more deceit I suspect - it makes a change so to have straight-forward fabrication as opposed to the more regular deceit of twisting the words of Leave posters to mean other than what was posted.

But - as a display of my concern for the Remainers who seem to be stuck in some tight loop of repetition I will provide a link to an article/blog that will make them giddy and from which they can select pearls of 'objective(not)' commentary to quote.

I also think that it is a good read for Leavers - because apart from the bollocks that is presented - such as the dominance of the ERG in control of government planning - it does give a palpable sense of the angst that the previously ever confident EU acolytes are now feeling - and therefore provides hope to Leavers that the UK will indeed see this next few months through to a conclusion which reflects a genuine departure.

Gone is the arrogance - now replaced by the mealy-mouthed frustration that is being felt due to the loss of control that May/Robbins handed to the EU

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/06/brexit-britain-risks-heading-to.html
​
 
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BlueAnorak said:
Your confusing failure with not putting in place infrasture to inspect goods and collect tariffs till it is absolutely necessary. No suprise of course as you just see what you want to see.
It seems to have passed you by that, for the most part, inspection is low priority as everything would pass inspection anyway with both markets initially working to the same rules!
Click to expand...
If I understand the first sentence alright (not easy) we are changing loads of tariffs on 1st January (most for no good reason other than to change them from cet to show how independent we are *) and applying the new tariffs to twice as many things. Why is that necessary let alone absolutely necessary?

* I can't imagine how much it's cost to decide on the tiny changes on thousands of commodities (e.g. 6.4% to 6% on live pigeons) and what the criteria were for changes. Maybe it was just one bloke in a darkened room with a brief to make a lot of tiny changes just to show we can.

I mean, how many Christmas trees did we import from outside the EU? "Peruvian Christmas trees Brexit boost as 2.5% tariff is slashed to zero."
 
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Churchlawtonblue said:
Barnier continually going public with statements like that is definitely blinking. Why would you say a thing if you were not worried about how the negotiations were going. You wouldnt. You just keep quiet and sit contentedly in the knowledge that you had what you wanted. The EU is up **** creek with out a paddle financially. Italy and Spain were in a terrible place before the virus now they expect to be bailed out and the arguments within have already started over who foots the bill. This can only strengthen our negotiation position.
Click to expand...
Because it was on the agenda of a scheduled EU committee? It's called transparency in non-perfidious Albion world.
 
Churchlawtonblue said:
Barnier continually going public with statements like that is definitely blinking. Why would you say a thing if you were not worried about how the negotiations were going. You wouldnt. You just keep quiet and sit contentedly in the knowledge that you had what you wanted. The EU is up **** creek with out a paddle financially. Italy and Spain were in a terrible place before the virus now they expect to be bailed out and the arguments within have already started over who foots the bill. This can only strengthen our negotiation position.
Click to expand...
Indeed, imagine trying to sell the EU to a non member like Britain now.
 
mcfc1632 said:
I started to feel a bit sorry for some of the 'arch-Remainers'

They have succeeded in turning the thread into a largely personal echo chamber where they can big each other up and slag of Leavers in their absence. I notice that they also continue to the deceit of ascribing to Leavers opinions and views that I have not seen them make - one of the latest ones is that we Leavers feel that we 'have the EU over a barrel'.

I have never said that - Did you ever say that? Do you remember any leaver saying that?

No - just more deceit I suspect - it makes a change so to have straight-forward fabrication as opposed to the more regular deceit of twisting the words of Leave posters to mean other than what was posted.

But - as a display of my concern for the Remainers who seem to be stuck in some tight loop of repetition I will provide a link to and article/blog that will make them giddy and from which they can select pearls of 'objective(not)' commentary to quote.

I also think that it is a good read for Leavers - because apart from the bollocks that is presented - such as the dominance of the ERG in control of government planning - it does give a palpable sense of the angst that the previously ever confident EU acolytes are now feeling - and therefore provides hope to Leavers that the UK will indeed see this next few months through to a conclusion which reflects a genuine departure.

Gone is the arrogance - now replaced by the mealy-mouthed frustration that is being felt due to the loss of control that May/Robbins handed to the EU

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/06/brexit-britain-risks-heading-to.html
​
Click to expand...
That's so perceptive. Of course we're frustrated that we are heading for No Deal and the cost to our economy rather than the promised (take your pick) sunlit uplands or still being in a free trade zone from Iceland to the Russian border.

If arrogance = hoping sense would prevail I'm as arrogant as hell.
 
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