George Floyd murder | Clashes between US police and protestors

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WNRH said:
The notion that George Floyd’s needless and tragic death would see positive changes in society has all but been lost now.

The social media cancel culture mob are turning ordinary people against what the movement should be about.

And now it’s getting political and the left are losing yet again, you would have thought that the last few years would have made them realise that telling normal decent people they are bad people because they don’t conform to their views is not going to gain them power or change the world for the better.

Society is not going to progress at the rate normal decent people would like if everyone is angry all the time forming group after group to fight each other.

Everything is extreme, there is no centre point anymore.

I’m sure if you would ask the Bristol public whether that statue of Edward Colston should still stand or be consigned to a museum and there was a proper debate over it, the answer would have been no and it would have been removed correctly. Instead it is torn down in an anarchist way that antagonises normal people.

Why can’t people discuss things in the correct manner? We all have names, culture, family history, talents and most importantly opinions. It seems that everything that is going on at the moment is designed to make us the same in the name of “equality”.

You read the newspapers, watch the news, scroll through tweets, get tagged in a Facebook post and everything is designed to recruit you and brainwash you to what they believe in. Everybody is trying to be that one person that can change the world which is impossible to achieve which in turn creates anger that “society isn’t doing enough so we must press harder”.

There will always be racism, just like there will always be murders, corruption, favouritism, bullying and any of the hundreds of examples I could have listed that don’t shine a good light on humans. You cannot eradicate any of them, they are part of the human DNA. It just seems that it’s a never ending “battle” with the delusion that it will be won. If a racist abuses a black player at a Premier League game, that does not mean that football in England has a racism problem, it just means that a racist is a football fan and he should be dealt with in the correct manner which luckily we now deal with in the correct manner, ban for life.

History exists to educate people as well. There was a post on here earlier today which was a good opinion in that black history is not celebrated enough. I agree with this, the way black history is portrayed is negative with undertones of bitterness. How far do we go back in history to a point where the demographic you belong to was suppressed against? We cannot change history, we can only change the future.
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The irony of that statue in Bristol is that the mayor of the city is black. He has been in power four years. He allegedly wanted it to be removed so why did he not?

He cited workload. I call bollocks and lies.

As the country removes and boards up statues of men who did great things, but held views in common with lots of people at the time, however unpalatable now, we in Manchester have a memorial to a convicted armed robber. But that’s okay.

The sooner the world stops using black and white and uses people the better. And yes I see the irony of my own words...
 
meltonblue said:
Again though, that’s because some in the media are linking everyone in to the same category. The original people that started Black lives matter and those whose lives are most impacted are ultimately the ones that are going to again suffer because of what it has turned into.

Their aim initially and still now is in their name. All they were asking for was for others to treat them similar to anyone else and that their lives matter. They haven’t just done that, they’ve pleaded for it and now they are protesting for it. It is not in their control to actually make the change because it is how they are treated and perceived that is the entire issue.

Whats now happened is a bunch of predominately white people, in supporting that movement, have taken it upon themselves to push it towards the censorship or eradication of anything they believe to be offensive to those people. The thing is though, all that has done is angered the very people the BLM movement is pleading to in the first place. Any initial sympathy is then drowned out in anger at the idea it’s then turned into an attack on their culture and ultimately for no benefit to anyone.

Does anyone really think what the BLM movement was asking for was the removal of a statue of someone that no one had ever heard of before? That they thought that is what would make the lives of their children better? Of course it isn’t, it’s changing the viewpoint of the people they will encounter throughout their life that is important.

I actually feel very sorry for the proper BLM movement. All they were asking for (again) was for white people to treat them with respect and for their lives to matter and it had a moment driving it that no one could ever condone. White people then attach themselves to the movement, turn it into an attack on historical figures and statues themselves and the initial message is then eradicated.

The end result is the very people the BLM were pleading to that their lives matter right now are instead debating and feeling more emotive about inanimate objects of dead white people than they do about their real lives right now.

Its depressingly ironic really if you think about it. And so the cycle continues.
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I agree with that a lot on how people coming in and latching on in solidarity but with their own sepeeate agendas dilute what these protests are about, and sadly it happens at many protests in this country.

I also believe that this situation hasn't been helped with the coverage and aftermath on social media and the news.
Having been on many a protest I have seen vandalism and grafitti go on by the fringe anarchists and giddy kids, who are normally told to fuck off or grow up by most protesters. Now churchills statue has been vandalised before and was reported on as an aside, and the costlon toppling was obviously a top news point, but I watched it, giggled and that was it, I suspect half the country couldn't care less what went on, but since one event in one city has seen blanket coverage because it stirs up emotion and is clickbait territory, this leads to the stupid list of what needs to come down being banded about online and then counter nonsnese from yaxley and the DFLA about standing guard to protect our herritage.

BLM have now cancelled their weekend protest in London as they don't want a risk on trouble from far right groups.
Other protesters will still turn up and march in their name (and if causing trouble tarnish it and defeat the object) partyl because they will see this as still a fresh subject and for some to challenge the right wingers counter protest.



Sad times and daft times but is it anything that hasn't happened before?
 
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BLUEMATT23 said:
Statues boarded up in London over night.
What a very sad sight, this country is finished.
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You know that when these statues and mannor houses went up in the 19th century vast areas of town and cities were torn down to facilitate them.

The ripping down of medeval britain to bulid victorian towns and cities suited to their wants and desires was done on a mass scale, by those in power without the peoples consent, most of the history of our past was demolished and destroyed.

What is different that cycle comes again and some people as for us to modernise and move forward again while removing some relics.
 
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Great move by that wonderful mayor of London Sadiq Khan, a total failure of a mayor who has done fuck all to reduce knife crime in the City, now erects scaffolding around Winston Churchill's statue. That will just inflame the situation even more, probably starting on Saturday. Going to go off big time I feel.
 
Stop the world I want to get off, the loony left and PC brigade have finally won, trying to wipe history from the world, it’s quite frankly pathetic, the statues etc have been there for years no one gives a shit, the thick twats wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Churchill. TV shows been taken down, I thought we lived in a free country, if I want to watch something then let me, if you don’t like it don’t bloody watch it. Erasing history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, trying to apologise for something that happened 100s of years ago is ridiculous. Maybe concentrate your efforts on slavery that’s happening now in our cities, using our resources and efforts to stop the exploited in our country now.
 
Cheadle_hulmeBlue said:
I think a lot of people on the left have lost the plot. Most people couldn’t care less about some of these issues - tv shows be cancelled for instance.

These same people who want to erase history, culture and the past have always wanted to do this. It’s becoming less and less about black lives matter every day and more about removing anything British or even anything slightly different - the league of gentleman.(not offensive at all)

it’s like a mass book burning or a chapter from 1984. There will be a big backlash to this, whether that’s in the form of counter protests or at the ballot box - brexit and the last election are examples of that.

If they remove the winston Churchill statue I honestly think there will be riots. Yes he did some bad things and probably was racist, but many including me see him as a hero who stopped a facist. It was a different era and it’s bizarre how we are judging/ comparing him to today’s society.
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Where you happy when the statue of Saddam was toppled?

Churchill wasn't "probably" racist, he was racist and he had eugenicist leanings, as well as surprisingly being known for outbursts of anti-semitism. The problem is the way history is taught in this country we only learn about the good bits of Churchill, which skews historical context. We teach so much nonsense about our history it makes it sound at times that Churchill defeated fascism on his own with a water pistol. All we do is romance about our past and wallow in the ridiculousness of Empire and Imperialism, this leads to the sort of stupidity we see today. If we had all been taught about Churchill warts and all, would there be a problem? no I don't think so, because we would have the historical context and the cult of Churchillian defiance would not exist. We would look on him as a great man albeit a flawed great man, as most men are. He was the right man at the time does that excuse the rest of what he was, no I don't think so. I wouldn't remove his statue but I would educate people about the real Churchill not the one who just made famous speeches, but the one who also made huge mistakes and was a bit of a ****.
 
Fordyboy46 said:
Great move by that wonderful mayor of London Sadiq Khan, a total failure of a mayor who has done fuck all to reduce knife crime in the City, now erects scaffolding around Winston Churchill's statue. That will just inflame the situation even more, probably starting on Saturday. Going to go off big time I feel.
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That statue is ruined.

You can still see the graffiti the vandals painted on it even after a professional clean up.

Any sympathy for the cause that I have is being eroded by vandalism and murder of shop owners protecting their livelihoods.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Stop the world I want to get off, the loony left and PC brigade have finally won, trying to wipe history from the world, it’s quite frankly pathetic, the statues etc have been there for years no one gives a shit, the thick twats wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Churchill. TV shows been taken down, I thought we lived in a free country, if I want to watch something then let me, if you don’t like it don’t bloody watch it. Erasing history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, trying to apologise for something that happened 100s of years ago is ridiculous. Maybe concentrate your efforts on slavery that’s happening now in our cities, using our resources and efforts to stop the exploited in our country now.
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Blue Maverick said:
Stop the world I want to get off, the loony left and PC brigade have finally won, trying to wipe history from the world, it’s quite frankly pathetic, the statues etc have been there for years no one gives a shit, the thick twats wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Churchill. TV shows been taken down, I thought we lived in a free country, if I want to watch something then let me, if you don’t like it don’t bloody watch it. Erasing history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, trying to apologise for something that happened 100s of years ago is ridiculous. Maybe concentrate your efforts on slavery that’s happening now in our cities, using our resources and efforts to stop the exploited in our country now.
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Excuse me have you ever seen the monocled mutineer on telly since it's first broadcast?

It was critically aclaimed and praised yet a backlash from tory mlMPs and right wing press had it mothballed and it has not seen the light of day again.

Also stop catagorising who is tearing down statues, I am left and far to it but I don't want churchills, nelson, gandhis statues removed or destroyed for the sake of it and I don't know any left wingers that do in my social circle.
I would like proper debate around what we imortalise and honour, but randomly tearing down statues nah.


Unless it is cromwells, that **** can fuck off ;-)


Lastly no one is erasing history, it will still exist and be available to all.
 
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urban genie said:
You know that when these statues and mannor houses went up in the 19th century vast areas of town and cities were torn down to facilitate them.

The ripping down of medeval britain to bulid victorian towns and cities suited to their wants and desires was done on a mass scale, by those in power without the peoples consent, most of the history of our past was demolished and destroyed.

What is different that cycle comes again and some people as for us to modernise and move forward again whike removing some relics.
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Like i said the country is well and truly finished.
I dont recognise it anymore.
 
Blue Maverick said:
Stop the world I want to get off, the loony left and PC brigade have finally won, trying to wipe history from the world, it’s quite frankly pathetic, the statues etc have been there for years no one gives a shit, the thick twats wouldn’t even exist if it wasn’t for Churchill. TV shows been taken down, I thought we lived in a free country, if I want to watch something then let me, if you don’t like it don’t bloody watch it. Erasing history doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, trying to apologise for something that happened 100s of years ago is ridiculous. Maybe concentrate your efforts on slavery that’s happening now in our cities, using our resources and efforts to stop the exploited in our country now.
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Spot on mate, post of the day. Don't like don't fucking watch simple as that.
 
BLUEMATT23 said:
Like i said the country is well and truly finished.
I dont recognise it anymore.
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They probably said the same in 1800s when all the tudor houses were torn down and replaced by slums and townhouses.


Many said the same about town when tommy ducks got tore down too.
 
urban genie said:
Excuse me have you ever seen the monocled mutineer on telly since it's first broadcast?

It was critically aclaimed and praised yet a backlash from tory mlMPs and right wing press had it mothballed and it has not seen the light of day again.

Also stop catagorising who is tearing down statues, I am left and far to it but I don't want churchills, nelson, gandhis statues removed or destroyed for the sake of it and I don't know any left wingers that do in my social circle.
I would like proper debate around what we imortalise and honour, but randomly tearing down statues nah.


Unless it is cromwells, that **** can fuck off ;-)


Lastly no one is erasing history, it will still exist and be available to all.
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Its not 'the left' and it's clearly not 'liberals' either as they are fairly illiberal and prescriptive. We need a new word.
 
Kind of ironic that a thread about a murdered black man is now full of people whining they are oppressed because Netflix has pulled Little Britain and the BBC dropped an episode of Fawlty Towers because a character used racist language.
 
Bigga said:
That's fair enough, but we don't know how long this was going on for.

We can see back up was called in, so that probably happened in the beginning when the intial cops showed up.
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True-but I have worked in places where any back up is 20 minutes away. You know you are on your own.
 
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