Another new Brexit thread

[Churchlawtonblue]

Indeed, imagine trying to sell the EU to a non member like Britain now.

Barniers negotiating position is now pretty precarious. The pandemic has weakened it significantly.

 

[west didsblue]

I’m still marvelling how not preparing for something, as in not building infrastructure or hiring staff or whatever is somehow a ‘good strategy’. Or how announcing our firm intention to do ‘x’ in February and then saying the exact opposite in June translates into ‘we’ve got the EU on the run lads. Just have to hold our nerve’.

Maybe I’m missing something. Run it by me again lads and I promise not to take the piss.

I’m marvelling at the idiocy of those that think we’re heading for some sort of huge victory and laughing at the smugness that they’re displaying, and how prepared they are to agree with and like even the most inane and stupid comments where they have convinced themselves that we have the upper hand based on no evidence at all. I suppose it’s consistent with the fact that the last people to realise the presence of a cult are its members.

 

[Vic]

Someone posted the recent comments from Barnier, which included:

“...….Do we really want to consolidate the UK’s position as a certification hub for the EU, knowing that it already controls some 15-20 percent of the EU certification market?

“Do we really want to take a risk with rules of origin that would allow the UK to become a manufacturing hub for the EU, by allowing it to assemble materials and goods sourced all over the world, and export them to the single market as British goods, tariff and quota-free?...."

I actually do not mind these comments- they reflect the sorts of concerns that the EU has about the threat of an independent and competitive UK just outside its borders.

This is the truth of how the UK is seen by the EU in 2020 and we must accept that we are a competitive threat that they seek to neutralise. And they are indeed gutted as they had the situation fully under the controls that agents May and Robbins designed for them - only for some quirk of fate to place it all at risk.

For me it is a very pleasant change to be viewed in this manner - I much rather this than the institutional contempt that was apparent pre-2016.

No - I do not mind these comments from EU representatives - I just find it a bit (let's say) disappointing to hear them from UK citizens - including on here. As I have said, for some the UK's best interests are down the priority list behind being proved right on the internet.

They are indeed angry - and as I say - I am starting to find some level of empathy.

It must be soooo hard to have been soooo cock-sure for soooo long and now realise that all your arrogance and confidence may have been mis-placed. Some of the posters seem to be in state akin to shock as to how this could have gone so completely tits up from the situation in 2018.

Well I say I would like to be seeking empathy - but then I go on the CL ban thread and I start to sense comparisons with the entitlement and arrogance of the G14 (EU and their Remain acolytes) and the duplictity of UEFA (EU ideologues) - and the desire for empathy is challenged by a sense of - go fuck yourselves​

What desperate linkage. I think Leavers are more like Lawrence promising the Arabs their own nation and finding his promises were worthless in the face of British perfidy.

 

[mcfc1632]

Yes Mr Fauxwalski, you're very angry at the world, and we're all very impressed.

The childishness - evidently some shield to cover insecurity - continues, as does the ascribing to Leavers comments that they have never made

Have you ever said the '...we have the EU on the run...'? or seen other Leavers say that??

No - me neither!!

The reality - which has been said many times is that the Remainer led acquiescence of May and Robbins led to a disgustingly EU biased WA and the UK has - largely thanks to the machinations of Remainers;-) - had a very lucky escape.

So I see a great outcome from the 'negotiations' of 2020 to be the repudiation of the PD and a drive to limit the consequences of the WA.

That is the limit of what can be achieved following 3 years of a Remainer led negotiation.

So - yeah - it is far worse than needed to be the case. We could have been in the 2nd year following a clean departure at this point - but fuck - it is a damn site better than the prospect of Remaining - and dramatically better than the far worse prospect of May's deal.

 

[BobKowalski]

Is that all you have these days Bob ? You seem unable to offer anything more to the debate. Thats a pity. You should try just a little bit of optimism and positivity for a change. I know its hard when you are still incredibly eaten up by the Ref and the last GE result. Think positive mate. You will get through this!

‘Optimism and positivity’. Well that will come in handy when processing 7,500 lorries a day going through Calais to Dover and back again

“Ah monsieur, do you have your SO14 and CP65 forms for this consignment?”
“Nah guv, but I’ve got a truck full of optimism and positivity. Will that do?”

Have you met French customs? Nice bunch. They’ve even built a brand new customs facility to cope with the extra regulation and paperwork. We’ve built an optimism generator.

 

[bluethrunthru]

A bitter Farage wants to take us all down with him ha ha ha

 

[Metal Biker]

The childishness - evidently some shield to cover insecurity - continues, as does the ascribing to Leavers comments that they have never made

Have you ever said the '...we have the EU on the run...'? or seen other Leavers say that??

No - me neither!!

The reality - which has been said many times is that the Remainer led acquiescence of May and Robbins led to a disgustingly EU biased WA and the UK has - largely thanks to the machinations of Remainers;-) - had a very lucky escape.

So I see a great outcome from the 'negotiations' of 2020 to be the repudiation of the PD and a drive to limit the consequences of the WA.

That is the limit of what can be achieved following 3 years of a Remainer led negotiation.

So - yeah - it is far worse than needed to be the case. We could have been in the 2nd year following a clean departure at this point - but fuck - it is a damn site better than the prospect of Remaining - and dramatically better than the far worse prospect of May's deal.

It's always fun being told to "defend" an opinion you've never even uttered or held.

 

[bluethrunthru]

Is this when the German car makers or Italian Prosecco sellers ride in?

What are the chances of this being sorted by the end of the month?

Nope they won't be.

Nope it won't be.

Watch for a repeat of today's appalling economic figures as a result. As people get back to work it will up tick then we walk away in June and growth will plummet again.

 

[BobKowalski]

A bitter Farage wants to take us all down with him ha ha ha

Where everyone else sees U-turn, the Brexit Brains Trust on here see this as a victory. Lack of positivity and optimism is our failing apparently.

 

[Vic]

While we've got their attention....

This should kill off the thread for today.

Anyway, today's challenge for the Brexit lobby (not that you will accept it judging by the lack of interest in fish, farming, finance and factories) is:

Do you believe what the Conservative manifesto said?

“In all of our trade negotiations, we will not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards.”

Or more generally, how will UK farms survive?(No subsidy for growing food, competing with cheaper crappier food from the US, tariffs on exports to EU who may not accept our food anyway if our standards drop)

And I hope you've all signed the petition.
https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/food-standards-petition/

Just for the record as no Brexiter will have an explanation but how do you reconcile the joint letter from Defra and DIT (a commitment they will not put into law) with the report of dual tariffs on imports?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/03/britain-ready-allow-import-chlorinated-chicken-us/

 

[BlueAnorak]

Of course it is, what's the point of extending it?

It would simply add £20bn to the cost of restarting the economy.

 

[BlueAnorak]

From a Leaver POV - it is sorted out now

I would not welcome too much (further examples of) compromise from the EU if that could lead to the UK accepting any levels of future controls under EU regulations

If there is no deal, then on a temporary basis, it's much easier to collect Tariffs with VAT. There is also actually no need to inspect all EU imports till market rules start to diverge. It also gets round the issue of Northern Ireland for a while as well.

 

[west didsblue]

If there is no deal, then on a temporary basis, it's much easier to collect Tariffs with VAT. There is also actually no need to inspect all EU imports till market rules start to diverge. It also gets round the issue of Northern Ireland for a while as well.

Did you work all that out yourself or was in in a Brexit fanzine? It wouldn’t be in any serious publication because it’s utter nonsense.

 

[BlueAnorak]

Did you work all that out yourself or was in in a Brexit fanzine? It wouldn’t be in any serious publication because it’s utter nonsense.

It's common sence. Not that you have any of that.

 

[BobKowalski]

If there is no deal, then on a temporary basis, it's much easier to collect Tariffs with VAT. There is also actually no need to inspect all EU imports till market rules start to diverge. It also gets round the issue of Northern Ireland for a while as well.

And what will France, Netherlands, Ireland be doing while we are waving everything through given no one had the foresight to plan for the ‘big fat border’ we were aiming for back in February?

 

[west didsblue]

It's common sence. Not that you have any of that.

Maybe you could explain how you apply VAT to just EU imports?

Let’s use food as an example. Currently most food is zero rated so we could theoretically apply VAT to that but it would also apply to the 50% of the food we eat that is produced in the UK just so that we can get some extra tax on the 30% of food sourced from the EU.

How about cars? VAT is already applied to cars so how are we going to recover tariffs from VAT in this case.

Pretty much the same applies to everything else.

Let’s hear it then. You can tell us all how you apply this common “sence”.

Meanwhile all our exports will have WTO tariffs applied because the EU have invested in the infrastructure required to implement this.

 

[Vic]

It would simply add £20bn to the cost of restarting the economy.

A mere trifle compared to cost of No Deal

 

[mcfc1632]

Is that all you have these days Bob ? You seem unable to offer anything more to the debate. Thats a pity. You should try just a little bit of optimism and positivity for a change. I know its hard when you are still incredibly eaten up by the Ref and the last GE result. Think positive mate. You will get through this!

TBF - its been like this for a while now

There a few of them coming across, metaphorically, as a statue that has been comfortable for many years but has recently found itself on a list. All that steady certainty and confidence in what the next days will bring is replaced by the outright nervousness/anxiety of the threatened.

They try and dress up their anguish and lack of much substance to post in pettiness and try to mistake the mirth it actually causes for us being 'bothered'.

 

[BobKowalski]

A mere trifle compared to cost of No Deal

We would be paying that amount, probably less, to keep supply chains and markets open for UK businesses and after a pandemic has seen an unprecedented hit to the UK economy.

Just as we rushed to trigger A50 without regard for the consequences we are rushing to rule out future actions without knowing what the state of the economy will be towards the end of this year.

So we triggered A50 too soon and without thinking it through or planning for it and we are doing exactly the same thing again. Oddly enough a certain D Cummings had some hard hitting observations of our A50 strategy. A strategy of such mind numbing stupidity we pointed out on here at the time.

 

[balotelli's back pocket]

Clearly the plan is to leave with no deal and place all the blame for the economic consequences on Covid-19. In reality, no deal will only pour fuel on the fire. But as contemptible as it may be, it's great politics.